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Tim wrote:

Hoot45 wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

go birds wrote:I've come to expect that from this regime. They had a nice run. That'll buy them some time because of our naive fanbase. And ultimately they will sell

I wouldn't call the fan base naive. They just love baseball, so they'll continue to go to games, buy merchandise, etc.

Not to mention there's not much competition for the fandom in St. Louis.

The whole "I'm not buying tickets in protest" idea that some people have bothers me. I haven't said much about it because it's not my place to judge how another person supports their team, but I do want to say that baseball to many people means more than winning and losing. It certainly does to me. I love watching live baseball (win or lose, error prone or not) and I love a night out at Busch with friends and family. I'll continue to go to games, buy merchandise, and hope this team wins instead of trying to punch them in the pocketbook or hope for failure so that it all blows up. That's what loving your city and team means to me.

What should fans do to voice their displeasure? Or should they just appreciate that their city has a team?

Do what Orioles fans did a few years ago and stage a mass walkout in the 4th inning?

Not sure that worked

It'd be one thing if they were snakebit by some massive deal that hasn't worked out. You know, some massive salary either absorbed, or handed out, that crippled the team for years- leaving them wary of making the same mistake. That's somewhat understandable, albeit a necessary risk being in this buisness. But I can't really recall them suffering from that scenario. The Waino contract is looking meh, and the extensions to our youth recently hasn't looked like great(necessary) moves. Could that give them enough pause to freeze spending?

I don't think it will be the hardcore fans staying away in protest that will make a difference, but the casual fan.

Obviously, watching a winning team is much more fun than watching a losing one, so who wants to spend their free time and money going to see a below .500 Cardinal team that is 10 games out, playing meaningless games in the oppressive summer heat of August when there are other options available. College and NFL football will be on TV Thursday night running all the way through Monday night. School starts back, along with all of the extra-curricular activities, including high school football. Apathy will cost the team a lot more than someone staying away as a protest.

Spider John wrote:I don't think it will be the hardcore fans staying away in protest that will make a difference, but the casual fan.

Obviously, watching a winning team is much more fun than watching a losing one, so who wants to spend their free time and money going to see a below .500 Cardinal team that is 10 games out, playing meaningless games in the oppressive summer heat of August when there are other options available. College and NFL football will be on TV Thursday night running all the way through Monday night. School starts back, along with all of the extra-curricular activities, including high school football. Apathy will cost the team a lot more than someone staying away as a protest.

Dammit let me have this.

MinorLeagueGuy wrote:It'd be one thing if they were snakebit by some massive deal that hasn't worked out. You know, some massive salary either absorbed, or handed out, that crippled the team for years- leaving them wary of making the same mistake. That's somewhat understandable, albeit a necessary risk being in this buisness. But I can't really recall them suffering from that scenario. The Waino contract is looking meh, and the extensions to our youth recently hasn't looked like great(necessary) moves. Could that give them enough pause to freeze spending?

Well, to some degree you can say they were snakebit by the Taveras thing. Every organization has that one player that comes thru their system that can carry the team "on the cheap" for a few years. The Cardinals just flat-out had that guy erased.

MinorLeagueGuy wrote:It'd be one thing if they were snakebit by some massive deal that hasn't worked out. You know, some massive salary either absorbed, or handed out, that crippled the team for years- leaving them wary of making the same mistake. That's somewhat understandable, albeit a necessary risk being in this buisness. But I can't really recall them suffering from that scenario. The Waino contract is looking meh, and the extensions to our youth recently hasn't looked like great(necessary) moves. Could that give them enough pause to freeze spending?

It all makes sense when you look at the systematic decline in payroll vs. team operating revenues since the 2006-2007 season.

At that point, they were spending 53-54% of team revenue on salaries and they had bonafide All-Stars on the ballclub. Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds, Molina, etc.

Clearly, Dollar Bill fired Jocketty in part for the grievous miscalculation in trading Danny Haren for Fox Mulder. Haren only outpitched Mulder from Day One and Dollar Bill absorbed Mulder's entire contract.

The Cardinals have been wildly successful at drafting and developing their own pitchers.

The Cardinals were "only" successful at growing their own hitters with Jeff Luhnow in the picture. Allen Craig being the last of that breed. It's funny that Tommy Pham now surfaces and he was - yet another - Luhnow draftee. - 16th round of 2006 draft

It's clear that Dollar Bill didn't limit the "grow your own" directive to the pitchers. But, the organization has been woeful at drafting and developing star position players since Luhnow's departure.

If only they'd been able to keep that password.

Re-thinking this for a minute.... You know, if you chase a guy like Robert, you don't have the money to lock up a guy like Kolten Wong for 5 years.

Makes sense.

Which star hitters did Luhnow draft and develop with the Cardinals?

Socnorb11 wrote:Which star hitters did Luhnow draft and develop with the Cardinals?

Rasmus is one. Guy stuck around for 10 years or so.

Allen Craig is another

Nick Stavinoha

Jon Jay

Descalso

Matt Carpenter

Greg Garcia

Matt Adams (who we now know can hit...)