Mozeliak: "Some Changes" Coming For Cardinals, But Not A Rebuild

[Popeye_Card]

Shane Bieber isn't going to cost as much as people think.

I think you are right, and unfortunately I think you'll get what you pay for. His strikeout rate is falling off a cliff. Which makes him a classic Cardinals move.

I think Bieber is a good not great pitcher. I'd still be excited to get him, as long as we're not giving up too much

If they're asking for Winn, Hence, etc...then just move your target to someone else like Logan Gilbert or Luzardo

I think he *was* a great pitcher, but he's looking like damaged goods. Cleveland is good at developing pitchers, but also very good at running them into the ground.

[Magneto2.0]

The move should be to replenish the system by getting stuff back for Monty, Hicks, Flaherty, Helsley.

Thus making parting with younger guys like Carlson, Gorman and prospects like Winn, McGreevey, Graceffo, Ian Bedell easier to stomach.

Also, I honestly think if Helsley comes back looking like he did pre injury, he may actually get you the most return in prospects based off him being under contract and shut down closers are hard to come by.

[Magneto2.0]

Shane Bieber isn't going to cost as much as people think.

I think you are right, and unfortunately I think you'll get what you pay for. His strikeout rate is falling off a cliff. Which makes him a classic Cardinals move.

I think Bieber is a good not great pitcher. I'd still be excited to get him, as long as we're not giving up too much

If they're asking for Winn, Hence, etc...then just move your target to someone else like Logan Gilbert or Luzardo

I think he *was* a great pitcher, but he's looking like damaged goods. Cleveland is good at developing pitchers, but also very good at running them into the ground.

Damn, damaged goods is strong. I still think he has a few good years left in the tank, but he could be Mark Mulder 2.0. It is definitely a risk. But Id still be willing to chance it. Just have to be smart about what you're giving up.

[Socnorb11]

The move should be to replenish the system by getting stuff back for Monty, Hicks, Flaherty, Helsley.

The return on those players isn't going to add anything to the system that the Cardinals don't already have plenty of.

If you want to replenish the system, you're going to have to trade good playrs.

[jagtrader]

The Cardinals can absolutely get good players for their rentals. A GM who wasn’t past his prime could, at least.

[Spider John]

I can't remember all of the timelines. Did Mo's decline begin when Luhnow left for Houston?

[Magneto2.0]

The move should be to replenish the system by getting stuff back for Monty, Hicks, Flaherty, Helsley.

The return on those players isn't going to add anything to the system that the Cardinals don't already have plenty of.

If you want to replenish the system, you're going to have to trade good playrs.

I disagree.

In order to fix the rotation, one of the methods will have to be via trade. But that means guys like Winn, Herrera, Graceffo, Mcgreevey and others will be leaving. I feel like these are off season moves, not trade deadline moves.

But in the meantime, while you're setting up for the off season, in order to replace those guys, they need to use to use Monty, Flaherty, Hicks, Helsley to bring back some solid prospects.

It's not as if the Cardinals have a system full of elite prospects they're trying to replenish through the trade deadline. They have about 3 top 100 guys. 1 is probably untradeable in Hence. Thus, they just need a couple of top 100 prospects back in return for the aforementioned guys. I don't think that's asking for too much to get a couple of top 100 guys between those 4 players.

[Magneto2.0]

The Cardinals can absolutely get good players for their rentals. A GM who wasn’t past his prime could, at least.

Yeah I'm not expecting us to walk away with Jackson Holliday but a couple of top 100 prospects between Flaherty, Montgomery, Hicks, and Helsley is definitely doable. Especially I think for Hicks and Helsley, because teams going into the postseason are going to need bullpen arms and if you think you have a real shot at a WS, in a league where nothing is promised, you'll be a little bit more willing to give up some guys still developing.

[phins]

The move should be to replenish the system by getting stuff back for Monty, Hicks, Flaherty, Helsley.

The return on those players isn't going to add anything to the system that the Cardinals don't already have plenty of.

If you want to replenish the system, you're going to have to trade good playrs.

You will get back several 40 or 40+ players with those trades, or you can try a consolidation trade to get a 50 and other 35+ to 40's for the rest.

This is one of the best years in recent memory to be a seller and the Cardinals can absolutely improve their quite mediocre farm system with trades of those players and some of the redundant pieces they have.

[dmarx114]

I look at it like a 2 step process.

Step 1 is getting prospects now for our rentals.

Step 2 is turning those prospects (and/or our current prospects) into guys who can help the pitching staff next year. These moves would be more likely to occur in the off season, but it's possible it can happen at this year's deadline.

We cannot count on free agency to solve our pitching problems. Mo needs to nail these trades.