pioneer98 wrote:
I don't know if we can keep sending up centrist candidates and ever expect to get anywhere. All Republicans do is keep sending up candidates who are further and further to the right. And it's working.
It is not working at the Presidential level. It is working at the Congressional level where the GOP-dominated legislatures have drawn districts to guarantee a majority of safe GOP seats. It half works in the Senate - senators have to win statewide election.
This is why it is important for those getting behind Sanders to work locally. Very important.
This is true. Having a guy like Bernie out there leading the way is important though because it at least starts the conversation, gets people thinking about these ideas. This is why he's a perfect protest vote right now, even if he's not a great candidate.
The conundrum I have is: are we being told to wait on Bernie's ideas because it's too big of a leap and people aren't ready for it? Or are we being told to wait on Bernie's ideas because the Democratic establishment doesn't like his ideas and hope they never have to implement them?
pioneer98 wrote:
I don't know if we can keep sending up centrist candidates and ever expect to get anywhere. All Republicans do is keep sending up candidates who are further and further to the right. And it's working.
It is not working at the Presidential level. It is working at the Congressional level where the GOP-dominated legislatures have drawn districts to guarantee a majority of safe GOP seats. It half works in the Senate - senators have to win statewide election.
This is why it is important for those getting behind Sanders to work locally. Very important.
This is true. Having a guy like Bernie out there leading the way is important though because it at least starts the conversation, gets people thinking about these ideas. This is why he's a perfect protest vote right now, even if he's not a great candidate.
The conundrum I have is: are we being told to wait on Bernie's ideas because it's too big of a leap and people aren't ready for it? Or are we being told to wait on Bernie's ideas because the Democratic establishment doesn't like his ideas and hope they never have to implement them? I honestly don't know. Maybe a mixture of both?
Don't wait - start now with the others that are excited and organize for the long haul. don't get depressed and go hide when Hillary is the nominee. Make sure she is elected over whatever clown the GOP put up.
pioneer98 wrote:
I don't know if we can keep sending up centrist candidates and ever expect to get anywhere. All Republicans do is keep sending up candidates who are further and further to the right. And it's working.
It is not working at the Presidential level. It is working at the Congressional level where the GOP-dominated legislatures have drawn districts to guarantee a majority of safe GOP seats. It half works in the Senate - senators have to win statewide election.
This is why it is important for those getting behind Sanders to work locally. Very important.
This is true. Having a guy like Bernie out there leading the way is important though because it at least starts the conversation, gets people thinking about these ideas. This is why he's a perfect protest vote right now, even if he's not a great candidate.
The conundrum I have is: are we being told to wait on Bernie's ideas because it's too big of a leap and people aren't ready for it? Or are we being told to wait on Bernie's ideas because the Democratic establishment doesn't like his ideas and hope they never have to implement them?
The language being used in that tweet is a little too conspiratard for my tastes, but between things like this, the Hillary video I posted, the Ackerman article that Kird quoted, Krugman's change of tune, and countless other instances, I think the message is clear: The Democratic establishment is making a hard 180 away from classic Democratic talking points for one reason and one reason only: They want Hillary to win.
Generally the media has been pretty kind to Sanders. As he does better in the polls he's going to get more scrutiny. That's how it works. You see it happen the the Republican side as well.
That said, I don't think the "establishment" (whatever that is) wants to see Sanders win the nomination for the very reasons I've laid out. He's a weak general election candidate.
Democratic party needs to get it's head of its arse and care about winning other offices besides president. increasing GOP authoritarian rule over states and rubberstamping the ALEC agenda is a [expletive] shambles, and affects more people in real ways -see Flint MI.
Michael wrote:Generally the media has been pretty kind to Sanders. As he does better in the polls he's going to get more scrutiny. That's how it works. You see it happen the the Republican side as well.
That said, I don't think the "establishment" (whatever that is) wants to see Sanders win the nomination for the very reasons I've laid out. He's a weak general election candidate.
I'm not saying Sanders doesn't deserve scrutiny. Not on here, but I criticize him all the time. But I can tell the difference between a legitimate criticism vs recapitulating republican talking points to gain electoral advantage.
Michael wrote:Generally the media has been pretty kind to Sanders. As he does better in the polls he's going to get more scrutiny. That's how it works. You see it happen the the Republican side as well.
That said, I don't think the "establishment" (whatever that is) wants to see Sanders win the nomination for the very reasons I've laid out. He's a weak general election candidate.
I'm not saying Sanders doesn't deserve scrutiny. Not on here, but I criticize him all the time. But I can tell the difference between a legitimate criticism vs recapitulating republican talking points to gain electoral advantage.
pioneer98 wrote:Playing devil's advocate to some extent here....
Republicans are going to call whoever the candidate is a radical, left wing liberal socialist who hates America. It's what they do. It doesn't matter if the candidate is actually a moderate centrist. Reality means nothing. So, if they are going to brand the candidate as a radical socialist regardless.....why not send the candidate up who may actually be as far to the left as they portray? Why let fear of what Republicans might do dictate the candidate on the Democratic side? We already know what Republicans will do. They will shamelessly slime whoever the candidate is. It doesn't matter.
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You say that as if it is not the same on the other side.
Of course it is. The difference is that Republicans don't care. They don't let the fear of what Democrats might do to them impact their choice.
Also, Democrats aren't quite as dirty or loud. There is no equivalent on the left to Fox News or right-wing radio. They've got Rachel Maddow. Also, can you imagine if the Democrats went and found some former military guys that were stationed with John McCain and trashed his war record? Democrats generally don't stoop to that level but maybe they should start.
You have your eyes and ears closed if you really believe that. Both sides are equally as bad. The left has (other than Fox News and some local AM talk) the media. From movies and TV shows to SNL. I can't believe that you don't see the propaganda.
