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Life is an unalienable right. A decent health care system helps secure that right.

It seems both sides are more interested in political brinksmanship that making that happen.

Do you know how many people 'less than 2%' of Americans is? It is a lot.

You bring up one example that you know in your life.

2% of Americans > 1 real life example.

Socnorb11 wrote:First of all, I'm sorry that you've got close friends & family that had to have heart surgery. I hope they're doing well.

Did you ask any of them why their insurance policies were cancelled?


I don't get out all that much, but I haven't talked to anybody who has had their policy cancelled (I know it's happening here and there.... but I think it's less than 2% of Americans, so it's pretty rare), so I haven't had a chance to have the conversation. It sounds like you know several....... so I'm curious what the reasons are.

Thanks, it was my dad. He's fine.

I didn't ask why policies were cancelled. I assume, and could be totally wrong, but I assume it is because insurance companies can wait and see what they'll have to match/beat in the exchange. Something like: step 1. cancel the policy. step 2. see what policies are available on the exchange. step 3. charge just a little bit more than what the exchange does and rely on personal relationships to keep the policy in house. Further, why not cancel the policies that the insurance company doesn't like but possibly couldn't get rid of due to not wanting to lose clients? They can always blame it on obamacare and face no backlash for like the first time ever. I would guess that there were certainly insurance policies that were not good, or not as good as what the people who bought them thought, but I don't think those are the only policiesgetting cancelled.

My mom's policy, for instance, is getting cancelled but will be replaced by something similar. I didn't look into it, but she said it met the standards which I trust she knows what she's talking about. She doesn't know how much it will cost, but they'll let her know. How does that work? How is an insurance company not sure how much they are going to charge for premiums in a month and a half? I don't understand. Blows my mind, really. Anyway just an example of what I've seen.

I have a lot of family that is self-employed, so....they have to deal with this stuff much more than I do.

I hope the ACA turns out well and works out for everyone or as many people as possible. I'm not 100% against it, I just don't like when people insinuate that the policies getting cancelled are horrible and people that have them are stupid. From what I've seen, that's not really the case.

Radbird wrote:Life is an unalienable right. A decent health care system helps secure that right.

It seems both sides are more interested in political brinksmanship that making that happen.

Unalienable rights don't come from the government.

stlouie_lipp wrote:

Radbird wrote:Life is an unalienable right. A decent health care system helps secure that right.

It seems both sides are more interested in political brinksmanship that making that happen.

Unalienable rights don't come from the government.

gov't makes sure you have them.

stlouie_lipp wrote:

Radbird wrote:Life is an unalienable right. A decent health care system helps secure that right.

It seems both sides are more interested in political brinksmanship that making that happen.

Unalienable rights don't come from the government.

Doesn't the Declaration of Independence say directly that the first purpose of government is to secure unalienable rights?

Thomas Jefferson wrote:We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men...

Jocephus wrote:

stlouie_lipp wrote:

Radbird wrote:Life is an unalienable right. A decent health care system helps secure that right.

It seems both sides are more interested in political brinksmanship that making that happen.

Unalienable rights don't come from the government.

gov't makes sure you have them.

sort of, but not really. The idea is they can't take them away because they come come from a source other than government, and our government was designed so that wouldn't happen and they would be protected. That was the idea anyway. Obviously, a lot of people don't think that way anymore.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
I hope the ACA turns out well and works out for everyone or as many people as possible. I'm not 100% against it, I just don't like when people insinuate that the policies getting cancelled are horrible and people that have them are stupid. From what I've seen, that's not really the case.

Likewise, I don't like it when people assume that Obama is beating up on the insurance companies and leaving them no choice but to cancel these policies. That's not really the case, either.


I just wish that all of these people who are so focused on hating Obamacare (not you, necessarily) would focus half as much energy hating the insurance and medical industries that have been fleecing America for decades.

Arthur Dent wrote:

stlouie_lipp wrote:

Radbird wrote:Life is an unalienable right. A decent health care system helps secure that right.

It seems both sides are more interested in political brinksmanship that making that happen.

Unalienable rights don't come from the government.

Doesn't the Declaration of Independence say directly that the first purpose of government is to secure unalienable rights?

Thomas Jefferson wrote:We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men...

Where did I say anything about the purpose of government? I just said unalienable rights don't come from the government, just like your quote illustrates - unalienable rights come from man's Creator, not government.

As to the purpose of government, governments are instituted among men to stop those in power from taking those natural rights away, and "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles".

Like I said, that's the idea anyway.

i dont believe in a creator, thus gov't will have to do.

wouldn't those denying health care to people with pre-existing conditions be the ones taking away natural law, i.e. life. i also dont think that the govt requesting minimum standards for the health industry as taking away any sort of rights you have. govt is looking out for its people, which it is supposed to do. just like it protects us from the bad guys.

do you criticize science/medicine for getting in the way of cancer killing someone? (dramatic question, but still...)