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Re: P.6 Ludwick to SD; Westbrook and Pads prospect to STL
Posted: July 31 10, 4:52 pm
by TGantz
I appreciate what Ludwick did for us over the years, but this team doesn't rely on Ludwick. Our offense has been inconsistent even with Ludwick because Pujols isn't playing as well as he usually does. We can always find a decent outfielder with similar production as Ludwick. The bottom line is that the success of this team lies in the difference between 1st half Pujols and 2nd half Pujols, not the difference between Ludwick and Jay.
The addition of Westbrook gives us a rotation of Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia, Westbrook, and Lohse which is much better than what we've had the last couple of months.
Re: P.6 Ludwick to SD; Westbrook and Pads prospect to STL
Posted: July 31 10, 4:53 pm
by doe_boy
Fat Strat wrote: DFA Stavy when Craig is eligible.
Didn't you hear that Mo's putting Stavy in a package of prospects for Hanley Ramirez and Dan Uggla?
Re: P.6 Ludwick to SD; Westbrook and Pads prospect to STL
Posted: July 31 10, 4:55 pm
by Fat Strat
Why does Stavinoha not have options? It's not a certain number of options, in my understanding, but a certain number of seasons in which he can be optioned at least once.
That's right. And Stavy has used his up. I don't understand all the rules with years and service time and who's sleeping with who's daughter, but Stavy is definitley out of options and will have to be DFA'ed or DL'ed to see Memphis again.
Re: P.6 Ludwick to SD; Westbrook and Pads prospect to STL
Posted: July 31 10, 4:58 pm
by Richie Allen
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:Richie Allen wrote:There are always going to be lopsided looking trades where one team appears to give up nothing in exchange for decent talent. Fact is, it isn't always going to be us on the side that appears to benefit. Cleveland may have insisted on a particular player to make this move. I'm sure they didn't simply say give us any marginal, class A prospect.
And while it's great for debate, I think it's crazy to examine each individual move a team makes and call it a win or lose, without at least a little consideration for all of the other potential moves that may be made. No, it's not good to "lose" trades but I think I'd hold off judging the front office as a success or failure based on a single move or two.
You and your calm, rational logic can get the hell out of here
This deal has made no emotional impact on me whatsoever. If anything, I'm excited to see a new pitcher and, hopefully, some of our younger guys manning RF for the balance of the year. Of course, that calmness will quickly be undermined when Winn starts 3 days a week and Stavi sees more playing time than any of our prospects.
Re: P.6 Ludwick to SD; Westbrook and Pads prospect to STL
Posted: July 31 10, 5:01 pm
by TGantz
Richie Allen wrote:AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:Richie Allen wrote:There are always going to be lopsided looking trades where one team appears to give up nothing in exchange for decent talent. Fact is, it isn't always going to be us on the side that appears to benefit. Cleveland may have insisted on a particular player to make this move. I'm sure they didn't simply say give us any marginal, class A prospect.
And while it's great for debate, I think it's crazy to examine each individual move a team makes and call it a win or lose, without at least a little consideration for all of the other potential moves that may be made. No, it's not good to "lose" trades but I think I'd hold off judging the front office as a success or failure based on a single move or two.
You and your calm, rational logic can get the hell out of here
This deal has made no emotional impact on me whatsoever. If anything, I'm excited to see a new pitcher and, hopefully, some of our younger guys manning RF for the balance of the year. Of course, that calmness will quickly be undermined when Winn starts 3 days a week and Stavi sees more playing time than any of our prospects.
I'm sure it's likely that Winn will get too much playing time, but Mo has also said multiple times that Jay and Craig are the reason he felt like he could make the trade.
For all we know, Stavi could just be a solution for a few days and they'll DFA him when Craig can come back up.
Re: P.6 Ludwick to SD; Westbrook and Pads prospect to STL
Posted: July 31 10, 5:02 pm
by Richie Allen
Tiff wrote:The prospect is inconsequential.
Same thing was said about Freese. Fact is, you can't simply judge a prospect by his numbers at class A. Not saying he will turn into anything but he also wasn't the point of the deal.
Side note. I'm just curious how many here were looking forward to Ludwick taking the bulk of the time in RF, for the balance of the season, at Jay's expense?
Re: P.6 Ludwick to SD; Westbrook and Pads prospect to STL
Posted: July 31 10, 5:02 pm
by InvincibleCakeEater
Fat Strat wrote:Why does Stavinoha not have options? It's not a certain number of options, in my understanding, but a certain number of seasons in which he can be optioned at least once.
That's right. And Stavy has used his up. I don't understand all the rules with years and service time and who's sleeping with who's daughter, but Stavy is definitley out of options and will have to be DFA'ed or DL'ed to see Memphis again.
I'm 99% sure that Stavinoha still has options this season.
Re: P.6 Ludwick to SD; Westbrook and Pads prospect to STL
Posted: July 31 10, 5:04 pm
by Tiff
Richie Allen wrote:Tiff wrote:The prospect is inconsequential.
Same thing was said about Freese. Fact is, you can't simply judge a prospect by his numbers at class A. Not saying he will turn into anything but he also wasn't the point of the deal.
Side note. I'm just curious how many here were looking forward to Ludwick taking the bulk of the time in RF, for the balance of the season, at Jay's expense?
Freese is an anomaly. He was logjammed. His peripherals were also encouraging. Nothing this prospect has done is encouraging other than being lefty.
And no one would care if Luddy was manning RF at Jay's expense because no rational person wanted Jay starting. He's clearly a 4th outfielder.
Re: P.6 Ludwick to SD; Westbrook and Pads prospect to STL
Posted: July 31 10, 5:06 pm
by Richie Allen
InvincibleCakeEater wrote:Fat Strat wrote:Why does Stavinoha not have options? It's not a certain number of options, in my understanding, but a certain number of seasons in which he can be optioned at least once.
That's right. And Stavy has used his up. I don't understand all the rules with years and service time and who's sleeping with who's daughter, but Stavy is definitley out of options and will have to be DFA'ed or DL'ed to see Memphis again.
I'm 99% sure that Stavinoha still has options this season.
And he's got one option that, until now, has not been on the table. He can suck my [expletive] [expletive].
Re: P.6 Ludwick to SD; Westbrook and Pads prospect to STL
Posted: July 31 10, 5:06 pm
by cpebbles
TGantz wrote:I appreciate what Ludwick did for us over the years, but this team doesn't rely on Ludwick. Our offense has been inconsistent even with Ludwick because Pujols isn't playing as well as he usually does. We can always find a decent outfielder with similar production as Ludwick. The bottom line is that the success of this team lies in the difference between 1st half Pujols and 2nd half Pujols, not the difference between Ludwick and Jay.
The addition of Westbrook gives us a rotation of Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia, Westbrook, and Lohse which is much better than what we've had the last couple of months.
We can always find a decent outfielder with similar production as Ludwick, currently tied with a few guys named Ichiro, Alfonso Soriano, and Delmon Young as the 17th most valuable corner outfielder in MLB? Please show Mo where.