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mikechamp wrote: ↑

July 22 22, 4:25 pm

So... did you have COVID, or something else?

Tested positive for covid tuesday morning.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: ↑

July 22 22, 3:38 pm

Also, don't know if other people use this, but desire to have a beer is probably my gauge of 'am I sick?' If the answer is no, somethings probably wrong.

Words to live by.

vinsanity wrote: ↑

July 23 22, 1:23 am

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: ↑

July 22 22, 3:38 pm

Also, don't know if other people use this, but desire to have a beer is probably my gauge of 'am I sick?' If the answer is no, somethings probably wrong.

Words to live by.

That's one step away from needing to be euthanized.

But seriously, I hope you're feeling much better.

Something I don’t understand about the myocarditis stuff in young boys - why would the MRNA vaccines create any increased tendency toward it? At least relative to Covid? There’s no drug or actual medication being introduced. It’s fat cells carrying MRNA that provide instruction on how to make the same spike as the Covid virus. The fat cells and the mRNA are destroyed by the body. So at worst the risk should be identical to what one would get with Covid, no?

Anyone know if there’s an accepted explanation on this or are we still not certain for sure that there is an increased tendency?

I think the issue is basically dose size. Apparently, some heart cell have some structurally similar elements to the spike protein, so an excessive immune response ends up attacking heart tissue. This is a potential concern for everyone with exposure to vaccine or infection but varies in relative degree. For whatever reason, young men seem to have a less favorable balance with a too large vaccine dose producing excessive response in a small minority of cases compared against an also quite low risk of severe disease. Infection in this demographic is perhaps generally resulting in an immune response clearing the virus without the need for the level of response generated by vaccination in the problematic cases.

Arthur Dent wrote: ↑

August 19 22, 9:52 am

I think the issue is basically dose size. Apparently, some heart cell have some structurally similar elements to the spike protein, so an excessive immune response ends up attacking heart tissue. This is a potential concern for everyone with exposure to vaccine or infection but varies in relative degree. For whatever reason, young men seem to have a less favorable balance with a too large vaccine dose producing excessive response in a small minority of cases compared against an also quite low risk of severe disease, with infection perhaps generally clearing virus without the need for the level of response generated by vaccination.

Thanks. So does excessive response here mean that there’s a tolerable or normal amount of infection post-vaccine but this is creating a situation where the reaction is too pervasive and it also attacks the heart tissue? I guess in theory a larger dose might create the same problem in adults?

Adults already sometimes get vaccine induced myocarditis with current dosing. Young men is the peak risk, but it exists for all. And the risk gradient of disease with age is enormous, so the risk/benefit is much more favorable the older you are.

In an ideal world, you’d have done more dose size trials to optimize this, but it was more important to get something out to people than completely dial it in first. For most adults, the benefit of vaccination before infection is huge and allowing more pre-vaccination infections while doing dose optimization experiments would not make sense (though I think we could have done better to update guidance as we learned, like don’t use Moderna for young people, etc). To the extent we’re planning on ongoing variant tracking regular vaccination, we really do need to do a better job as the potential benefits of such shots are not going to be very high and we really need to know that those benefits are greater than the harms.

BrntOrngStud wrote: ↑

August 27 22, 4:29 pm

<<<<<<Mod edit: @BrntOrngStud moved your post to Politics.>>>>>>

Wrong thread, dude.

ghostrunner wrote: ↑

August 19 22, 9:38 am

Something I don’t understand about the myocarditis stuff in young boys - why would the MRNA vaccines create any increased tendency toward it? At least relative to Covid? There’s no drug or actual medication being introduced. It’s fat cells carrying MRNA that provide instruction on how to make the same spike as the Covid virus. The fat cells and the mRNA are destroyed by the body. So at worst the risk should be identical to what one would get with Covid, no?

Anyone know if there’s an accepted explanation on this or are we still not certain for sure that there is an increased tendency?

Ghostrunner, there doesn't exist sufficient medical literature to explain but I have seen molecular mimicry between the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 and the trigger of preexisting dysregulated immune pathways in certain individuals as possible explanations. You are right that there is increased intendency towards getting myocarditis after getting COVID relative to the vaccine.

You are right that there is increased intendency towards getting myocarditis after getting COVID relative to the vaccine

Not if you’re a male under the age of 40 it isn’t.