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Re: Coronavirus
Posted: August 30 22, 8:44 am
by cardinalkarp
I hate to say it, but you’re partially wrong on this doc. And just so you don’t think I’m making things up….
It obviously shows that Moderna is the worst culprit here, but with Pfizer when adding both the first and second doses its slightly higher than those unvaccinated who get COVID induced myocarditis.
Again, this is for men under 40 which is a pretty large subset of the population but again, this just goes to show the vaccines aren’t nearly as safe as they led everyone to believe.
https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/ ... n-vaccines
Quite the misleading article title when you find this within it….
The risk for myocarditis increased after receiving the first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine, and after a first, second and booster dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. But the risk of myocarditis associated with the vaccine was lower than the risk associated with COVID-19 infection before or after vaccination – with one exception. Men under 40 who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a higher risk of myocarditis following vaccination. The Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines are available in the U.S.
Among men under 40, there were an estimated four extra cases of myocarditis associated with the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine and 14 extra cases with the first dose of the Moderna vaccine for every 1 million men vaccinated. That risk rose with the second dose for all three vaccines studied and was highest for Moderna's, which had an additional 97 myocarditis cases per 1 million. For unvaccinated men under 40 with COVID-19, there were 16 additional myocarditis cases per million.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: August 30 22, 1:54 pm
by Richie Allen
"Higher risk" is the most misleading term.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: August 30 22, 2:15 pm
by Transmogrified Tiger
The article says unvaccinated people with covid are 11x more likely to get myocarditis, and it doesn't give a baseline(a quick search found
this which implies 1 in 10-20k). The worst of the vaccine outcomes, Moderna to under 40 men, was estimated to cause 16 more cases per million. So unless I'm misunderstanding the crossover in the data, the only way that Moderna is higher risk for myocarditis than covid in under 40 men is if the baseline rate of myocarditis in under 40 men is about 1 in 1.5 million or greater. And even then, it's an estimated 16 cases out of a *million* in this worst case scenario.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: August 30 22, 2:35 pm
by cardinalkarp
Transmogrified Tiger wrote: ↑August 30 22, 2:15 pm
The article says unvaccinated people with covid are 11x more likely to get myocarditis, and it doesn't give a baseline(a quick search found
this which implies 1 in 10-20k). The worst of the vaccine outcomes, Moderna to under 40 men, was estimated to cause 16 more cases per million. So unless I'm misunderstanding the crossover in the data, the only way that Moderna is higher risk for myocarditis than covid in under 40 men is if the baseline rate of myocarditis in under 40 men is about 1 in 1.5 million or greater. And even then, it's an estimated 16 cases out of a *million* in this worst case scenario.
Huh??
Men under the age of 40
Unvaccinated w/ COVID case - 16 additional myocarditis cases per million
First dose of Pfizer - 4 additional myocarditis cases per million
Second dose of Pfizer - 13 additional myocarditis cases per million
First dose of Moderna - 14 additional cases of myocarditis per million
Second dose of Moderna - 97 additional cases of myocarditis per million
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: August 30 22, 3:13 pm
by Transmogrified Tiger
Ugh, I probably went over that graf 3 times, why is reading so difficult. Okay, so for under 40 men, the difference in unvaccinated myocarditis risk and 2 doses of moderna is one additional case for every 12,500 under 40 men(net 80 per million).
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: August 30 22, 3:23 pm
by cardinalkarp
Transmogrified Tiger wrote: ↑August 30 22, 3:13 pm
Ugh, I probably went over that graf 3 times, why is reading so difficult. Okay, so for under 40 men, the difference in unvaccinated myocarditis risk and 2 doses of moderna is one additional case for every 12,500 under 40 men(net 80 per million).
I’m not sure where you’re getting a net 80 per million?
Regarding moderna….14 after the first dose and 97 after the second dose is 111 additional myocarditis cases per million while an unvaccinated man under 40 catching COVID has 16 additional cases per million (which if that’s where you’re getting the net 80 I guess I’m not understanding).
So are you saying…..eh, those additional myocarditis cases are nothing?
When dealing w/ a subset of the population that was at a VERY low risk of serious illness and death, when the vaccine can do more harm than COVID that IS a problem imo.
Especially when it’s happening to college age young men who are basically being forced to get the vaccine or not be able to go to school.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: August 30 22, 6:10 pm
by Transmogrified Tiger
cardinalkarp wrote: ↑August 30 22, 3:23 pm
Transmogrified Tiger wrote: ↑August 30 22, 3:13 pm
Ugh, I probably went over that graf 3 times, why is reading so difficult. Okay, so for under 40 men, the difference in unvaccinated myocarditis risk and 2 doses of moderna is one additional case for every 12,500 under 40 men(net 80 per million).
I’m not sure where you’re getting a net 80 per million?
Regarding moderna….14 after the first dose and 97 after the second dose is 111 additional myocarditis cases per million while an unvaccinated man under 40 catching COVID has 16 additional cases per million (which if that’s where you’re getting the net 80 I guess I’m not understanding).
So are you saying…..eh, those additional myocarditis cases are nothing?
When dealing w/ a subset of the population that was at a VERY low risk of serious illness and death, when the vaccine can do more harm than COVID that IS a problem imo.
Especially when it’s happening to college age young men who are basically being forced to get the vaccine or not be able to go to school.
You can't have a second dose without a first dose, so I read the 97 as inclusive of the 14, the 80 is the 97 vs. the 16. Making it 111 doesn't make a big difference in the takeaway. No, additional myocarditis cases aren't nothing, but 80 out of a million is closer to nothing than something. You're talking up this group's "VERY low risk of serious illness and death" (which isn't wrong), but that risk is several times higher than the likelihood of this worst case myocarditis cohort.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: September 4 22, 7:48 pm
by mikechamp
Well, it finally found me. I was able to dodge it for over 2.5 years, but kids going back to school lead to a huge wave, according to school officials in my area.
Thankfully, it's not too bad. Fever, runny nose, cough, sore throat, fatigue. I'm almost 2 days into feeling symptoms.
What a way to spend a long weekend. Ugh.
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: September 4 22, 9:38 pm
by GeddyWrox
My brother got it for the first time this past week too. He got paxlovid and feels a ton better already. Check into that!!
Re: Coronavirus
Posted: September 7 22, 12:56 pm
by heyzeus
mikechamp wrote: ↑September 4 22, 7:48 pm
Well, it finally found me. I was able to dodge it for over 2.5 years, but kids going back to school lead to a huge wave, according to school officials in my area.
Thankfully, it's not too bad. Fever, runny nose, cough, sore throat, fatigue. I'm almost 2 days into feeling symptoms.
What a way to spend a long weekend. Ugh.
Take 'er easy, Mike. I only have a juris doctorate, but my prescription is to watch lots of baseball.