2017-18 NBA Thread

[33anda3rd]

Too bad my hometown Bulls are never in position to draft someone like Jordan Bell.

[33anda3rd]

Here's one that I think is as fun as MJ/LeBron to debate and they are same era and have very similar resumes in a lot of ways.

Kobe: entered league 1996-97, retired after 2015-2016, 5 rings, 2X Finals MVP, 1X MVP
Duncan: entered league 1997-98, retired after 2015-2016, 5 rings 3X Finals MVP, 2X MVP

Who you got?

[MAGA]

Duncan. Defensive anchor. Knew his limitations as his career entered the twilight stage. Sacrificed salary to extend the team window. Both were so skilled. Kobe used his skill and talent to justify playing a selfish inefficient game.

When it’s close, I always lean big man.

[33anda3rd]

Duncan was so much better than Kobe that despite the top-line similarities in their resumes it's not really even a question in my mind.

In Shea Serrano's very fun and very good book "Basketball (And Other Things)" one of the questions he asks is: "How many years during his career was Kobe Bryant the best player in the league?" As I started the chapter I thought "The answer is none" and at the end of the chapter Serrano's answer was: "none." That's kinda important, because there are a lot of kids of a certain generation who will tell you that Kobe Bryant goes up there with MJ and LeBron. Hell, there are kids in their early 30s who will tell you LeBron < Kobe because of rings or some other dumb [expletive]. But Kobe Bryant was never even the best player in the league in a given year, so how the hell can he be the best player of a generation, or in the discussion with LeBron who has been the best player every year for at least a decade?

The players Serrano called best by year in Kobe's career were:

[SHOW]

97-98 Jordan (Maybe Malone)
99 Malone (Maybe Duncan)
00 Shaq (Maybe KG)
01 Iverson (But Probably Shaq)
02 Shaq (But maybe Duncan)
03 Duncan (But maybe KG)
04 Maybe KG (But probably Duncan)
05 KG (Maybe Dirk)
06 Wade (Maybe LeBron)
07-17 LeBron (Maybe Duncan in 07, Maybe Kobe in 08 and 10, Maybe Wade in 09, Maybe Dirk in 11, Maybe Durant in 12, 13 and 14; Maybe Steph in 15 and 16

Duncan wasn't just a defensive plus, he was a dominant defender. That not only bridges the gap between the flash of Kobe's scoring, it builds the bridge and then builds a wall on the bridge and says "sorry Kobe you don't have access to this side." Dunc led the league in D rating a handful of times and Kobe was only better than league average once. Night and day.

[Jocephus]

did you know david robinson taught himself to play the saxophone? i learned that from sports illustrated for kids

[MAGA]

Dunc led the league in D rating a handful of times and Kobe was only better than league average once. Night and day.

Are you saying all-defensive teams are worthless?!? I mean, I agree.

Duncan is considered by many the GOAT PF but he’s somehow underrated. He never marked out for his own gimmick and that may leave him a quiet legacy. That’d be true to Duncan though, yeah? Hasn’t he been radio silent since retirement? When guys like Wilt couldn’t wait to get a mic in their face.

[33anda3rd]

All-D teams are like Gold Glove awards. Jeter has a trunk of GGs but we know he was shaky on D. It's a rep thing. Kobe was terrible at closing out on shooters and didn't put a lot of effort into D. Robert Covington and Jusuf Nurkic were probably both top-5 defenders this year and will not be on the first team. Dejounte Murray, Aaron Baynes (due to minutes), Oladipo were great this year and will probably not get more than the cursory hometown writer vote.

Yeah, Duncan is probably the most boring superstar player in the history of the NBA. However, he's also somewhere in the top 15 all-time players. We talk a lot about LeBron dragging teams of scrubs to the Finals, but look at the 03 Spurs. Robinson was basically done. Parker and Manu were just pups. Dunc almost single-handedly beat the Lakers and a great Mavs team, then in the Finals against the Nets he went 24 points, 17 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 blocks per game (including a silly 20/20 game with like 10 dimes and almost 10 blocks in the close-out game) to win the title. That's some 1984 Bird level stuff, just with a ton of defense on top of the 20/20 game. That 2007 Suns team with D'Antoni/Nash/Stoudemire that was the most fun thing in the game? Duncan popped that bubble in the playoffs, killed the Suns, and took the Spurs to a title. He was incredible.

[cardsfansince82]

Duncan was the OG "whine about every single call to the refs" guy, but I take him over Kobe all day, even without taking character/leadership into account. Kobe didn't make anyone around him better. He didn't even average 5 APG with the ball all the time and the attention focused on him. He never won without a great front line to rebound all his misses. Lebron drags garbage rosters to the finals every year. Kobe missed the playoffs four times and exited in the first round three more. He routinely pouted and demanded trades any time he had less than a stacked roster. Duncan will always be underrated and Kobe will always be massively overrated.

[33anda3rd]

Also a lot of free agents declined the opportunity to play with Kobe because he had a rep for being a lousy teammate.

Duncan was the OG "whine about every single call to the refs" guy

True story: on Sunday night I saw Draymond Green get whistled for a foul and actually agree with the call. It was pretty historical.

[cardsfansince82]

Not surprising at all that no one wanted to play with Kobe. His idea of emulating Jordan was to be a hyper competitive dick to everyone, but even that was hilariously contrived. Remember when he started making that face he practiced in the mirror for months?