Tribune reports Prior is done for '07

[ndistops]

I'm betting we don't see Prior back on a mound again until 2009, and that he won't be half the pitcher he once was.

It's an interesting quandry if you're a Cardinals fan. Do you go cold and just shrug your shoulders about him, or do you feel bad for a guy who once had a very promising career?

I'm not sure which side to take. On one hand, I don't think players should hold back and just give the media cliches, but I also think that a player should show a little bit of candor.

I don't remember any Cubs fans sheding tears for Ankiel...

With all due respect, there are lots of Ankiels in baseball annals. There aren't many Priors.

And yes, I'm biased.

[haltz]

With all due respect, there are lots of Ankiels in baseball annals. There aren't many Priors.

175 IP, 133 ERA+ at age 20? Six starts at a 68 ERA+ the next year and then they're pretty much done?

[Fat Strat]

With all due respect, there are lots of Ankiels in baseball annals. There aren't many Priors.

And yes, I'm biased.

In pure stuff I think that Ankiel and Prior are a lot closer than most people think. Ankiel was the best young pitcher I had ever seen and followed when he came up to the majors. Prior was more well known and celebrated (largely from his college career), but both were amazing prospects with unlimited potential.

All things being equal, I would have taken Prior over Ankiel, but they were very close in overall potential.

The stats bear this out as well, at least in their first significant MLB seasons.

Ankiel, age 20, 2000 - 133 era+, 3.50 era, 194 K's in 175 ip's., 1.297 whip
Prior, age 21, 2002 - 122 era+, 3.32 era, 147 K's in 117 ip's., 1.166 whip

Very similar, really, and at that point in their careers neither pitcher had exhibited the problems that would eventually define them. Prior was healthy and durable. Ankiel had very good control for his stuff and experience.

My how things can change so quickly.

[jim]

If you are going to go from pure stuff, one time only, I'd take Ankiel.

[GatewaySnayke]

I'm not sure if there has ever been a curve ball quite like Ankiel's that I've ever seen.

That guy should have his third Cy Young by this point.

[Magneto]

I'm betting we don't see Prior back on a mound again until 2009, and that he won't be half the pitcher he once was.

It's an interesting quandry if you're a Cardinals fan. Do you go cold and just shrug your shoulders about him, or do you feel bad for a guy who once had a very promising career?

I'm not sure which side to take. On one hand, I don't think players should hold back and just give the media cliches, but I also think that a player should show a little bit of candor.

I don't remember any Cubs fans sheding tears for Ankiel...

With all due respect, there are lots of Ankiels in baseball annals. There aren't many Priors.

And yes, I'm biased.

Ahhh, no, not at all.

And atleast Mark Prior more success throughout his career. Ankiel was one and done.

[a_smith]

With all due respect, there are lots of Ankiels in baseball annals. There aren't many Priors.

175 IP, 133 ERA+ at age 20? Six starts at a 68 ERA+ the next year and then they're pretty much done?

if you look at the people who have topped that ERA+

you have Gooden blowing everyone away 226
(skipping dead ball era players)
Drysdale at 154
Feller at 154
Eck at 146
Walter Johnson 139
Fernando Valenzuala 134
Gary Nolan 132
Burt Blyleven 127
Don Gullet 127
(there are some gaps I dug through baseball reference)

There are some weaker members of that group, but wow that is a studly group of people to be included with.

and great goooggly mooggly Gooden was good.

[haltz]

With all due respect, there are lots of Ankiels in baseball annals. There aren't many Priors.

175 IP, 133 ERA+ at age 20? Six starts at a 68 ERA+ the next year and then they're pretty much done?

if you look at the people who have topped that ERA+

you have Gooden blowing everyone away 226
(skipping dead ball era players)
Drysdale at 154
Feller at 154
Eck at 146
Walter Johnson 139
Fernando Valenzuala 134
Gary Nolan 132
Burt Blyleven 127
Don Gullet 127
(there are some gaps I dug through baseball reference)

There are some weaker members of that group, but wow that is a studly group of people to be included with.

and great goooggly mooggly Gooden was good.

Yep. Setting the criteria on the PI at 20 yo 175 IP and 133 ERA+ you can also add Wally Bunker, Christy Mattewson, Dave Rozema, and Don Drysdale.

Bunker, Nolan and Rozema looked like they didn't pan out like people probably hoped (which is probably why I don't think I've ever heard of them). But that's not a bad list to be on.

[ndistops]

Prior had a 175 ERA+ in his first full season in the majors (03)...and was still an above average pitcher in 2004 and 2005 (113 and 116) despite not being fully healthy either year. (Not comparing to Ankiel here, just for information.)

I really miss him. ESPN doesn't help by constantly showing those highlights of his studliness in Game 3 of the NLDS in 2003.

[greenback44]

I remember the latter part of Nolan's career. He was a heckuva pitcher who fell off the face of the Earth due to the kind of use that made pitch counts what they are today.