Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[PujolJunkie]

Obama responds to bailout plan:

As of now, the Bush Administration has only offered a concept with a staggering price tag, not a plan. Even if the U.S. Treasury recovers some or most of its investment over time, this initial outlay of up to $700 billion is sobering. And in return for their support, the American people must be assured that the deal reflects the basic principles of transparency, fairness, and reform.

....

First, there must be no blank check when American taxpayers are on the hook for this much money.

Second, taxpayers shouldn't be spending a dime to reward CEOs on Wall Street.

Third, taxpayers should be protected and should be able to recoup this investment.

Fourth, this plan has to help homeowners stay in their homes.

Fifth, this is a global crisis, and the United States must insist that other nations join us in helping secure the financial markets.

Sixth, we need to start putting in place the rules of the road I've been calling for for years to prevent this from ever happening again.

And finally, this plan can't just be a plan for Wall Street, it has to be a plan for Main Street.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/2 ... 28072.html

[clement]

FWIW, I recently talked to a Marine who had just finished a tour of duty in Iraq. It was his opinion that a ton of progress had been made in the last year or so. Control has been completely turned over to Iraqis in the Anbar province and the rest of the country is soon to follow. Over the next year or two you will see a lot of the troops leave Iraq with a much smaller force remaining in place for the next 3-5 years just to make sure a civil war doesn't happen. But he felt that Afghanistan was a much bigger threat at this point and you will see most of the troops shifted there or sent home.

I don't think there is any denying that there has been a great deal of progress made from a year ago when the whole war was essentially in a shambles. A number of factors have led to improved conditions in Iraq, and one of them has to be considered the so-called troop 'surge'. But like Mission-Accomplished Bush before him, McCain has been going around claiming victory for the US and the surge strategy a bit prematurely. Even newly appointed commander General Odierno has acknowledged that the gains in the country are both "fragile" and "reversible". In other words, like our election polls, the pendulum could swing back in the other direction pretty quickly in Iraq. This is especially true when you notice that the political tensions in Iraq remain largely unresolved with the potential to be re-inflamed with every election or move the parliament tries to make.

And as you said, while things have improved in Iraq, things in Afghanistan have deteriorated significantly. The whole reason McCain has shut up slightly about his very pro-surge policy is because despite the success of the surge, he realizes that most Americans also realize that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake in the first place... one that he very stridently supported.

[Freed Roger]

FWIW, I recently talked to a Marine who had just finished a tour of duty in Iraq. It was his opinion that a ton of progress had been made in the last year or so. Control has been completely turned over to Iraqis in the Anbar province and the rest of the country is soon to follow. Over the next year or two you will see a lot of the troops leave Iraq with a much smaller force remaining in place for the next 3-5 years just to make sure a civil war doesn't happen. But he felt that Afghanistan was a much bigger threat at this point and you will see most of the troops shifted there or sent home.

I don't think there is any denying that there has been a great deal of progress made from a year ago when the whole war was essentially in a shambles. A number of factors have led to improved conditions in Iraq, and one of them has to be considered the so-called troop 'surge'. But like Mission-Accomplished Bush before him, McCain has been going around claiming victory for the US and the surge strategy a bit prematurely. Even newly appointed commander General Odierno has acknowledged that the gains in the country are both "fragile" and "reversible". In other words, like our election polls, the pendulum could swing back in the other direction pretty quickly in Iraq. This is especially true when you notice that the political tensions in Iraq remain largely unresolved with the potential to be re-inflamed with every election or move the parliament tries to make.

And as you said, while things have improved in Iraq, things in Afghanistan have deteriorated significantly. The whole reason McCain has shut up slightly about his very pro-surge policy is because despite the success of the surge, he realizes that most Americans also realize that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake in the first place... one that he very stridently supported.

Well said clem. Granted this is just from reports, - several factors have led to a tenuously stabilized Iraq. The prescence of US troops being one. Also big factors, were Al-Qaeda moving on into other countries like Afghanistan. the Iraqi civil war has slowed down because the violence led to a mass migration and segregation of the different factions. not as many factions living side-by-side.

Lastly, Al-Sadr has called off his followers. He's on the US payroll. US has figured he and others are worth more alive and helping us, instead of making martyrs out of them.

Someday we'll have to leave, stop pouring billions into their country.

[clevername]

if we're going to go to war for those reasons alone, who's next? Because we can't finish up in Iraq and then not proceed to the next country whose people "don't have freedom" if that's the reason we're going to use for carrying out war.

When will we go assist the people in Africa?

How hypocritical are we if we don't?

I really dislike this pseudopatriotism. People latch on to what makes them feel better about what we're doing. That doesn't justify it.

[PujolJunkie]

if we're going to go to war for those reasons alone, who's next? Because we can't finish up in Iraq and then not proceed to the next country whose people "don't have freedom" if that's the reason we're going to use for carrying out war.

When will we go assist the people in Africa?

How hypocritical are we if we don't?

I really dislike this pseudopatriotism. People latch on to what makes them feel better about what we're doing. That doesn't justify it.

Where is there oil in Africa? Pshaw. Let 'em die for the sake of population control.

And didn't you hear?! LEE GREENWOOD! PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! How does it get more patriotic?

[jim]

The "kill them all" strategy didn't work. Paying off the Al-Sadr and putting the mullahs on the US payroll, as well as 150,000 US troops has brought a band-aid sort of peace to the nation. I don't know if that is called victory. but if it gets US out of there, then claim victory and bring the troops home.

I have to be a pessimist, but a realist. Iraq was a mess before we came, is a mess now, and will be a mess when we leave.

FWIW, I recently talked to a Marine who had just finished a tour of duty in Iraq. It was his opinion that a ton of progress had been made in the last year or so. Control has been completely turned over to Iraqis in the Anbar province and the rest of the country is soon to follow. Over the next year or two you will see a lot of the troops leave Iraq with a much smaller force remaining in place for the next 3-5 years just to make sure a civil war doesn't happen. But he felt that Afghanistan was a much bigger threat at this point and you will see most of the troops shifted there or sent home.

I have a very good friend in Afghanistan right now and it really doesn't sound like a good deal from the first hand reports I'm getting.

[PujolJunkie]

ARG has been weighted at about a 1.5 Republican favor. So it's very possible that Virginia is tied or maybe McCain +0.5 or +1.

ARG also has Obama only +7 in Iowa when most polls have him eclipsing double digits easily. I think ARG's effect could be as high as 2+ GOP or so. Maybe a little higher.

Miami Herald's +2 McCain is maybe a tiny bit more reliable than the R2K poll I broke down earlier. One thing is FOR SURE -- Florida is now purple and if it turns blue, Obama wins. Period. Even if McCain carries Michigan/Colorado or Pennsylvania/Colorado.

If McCain carries Penn/Michigan, then Florida can't win it for Obama, but I highly doubt McCain will carry Penn/Michigan/Ohio AND Indiana. It's just not going to happen.

Bottom line: Florida is huge now. If the polls continue to show McCain +1, tied or an Obama favor, McCain has a HUGE problem on his hands.

EDIT: I forgot to mention another scenario. If Obama carries Colorado, Virginia, Florida, McCain is completely statistically incapable of winning. There are ZERO ways. End of story. Even if he wins Ohio, Oregon AND Washington or Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin AND Minnesota. He'd still lose. No matter what happens this year, if Florida, Colorado and Virginia all light up blue, McCain can not win.

[PujolJunkie]

Oh my Goodness.

From Satyam at Think Progress, that user reports something from 60 Minutes tonight that is of the level of extreme "Regress.":

Q: In 1999, you were one of the senators who helped pass deregulation of Wall Street. Do you regret that now?

McCAIN: No. I think the deregulation was probably helpful to the growth of our economy.

[/youtube]

If this video goes viral.. I hate to sound like I'm wishful thinking here.. but this election could be over.

[Socnorb11]

The 60 minutes interviews last night with both candidates was really interesting, in my opinion. I'm a little partial, but I thought that McCain generalized his responses too much, while Obama seemed to have some specific ideas and thoughts about how to solve some of our problems.

[jim]

The 60 minutes interviews last night with both candidates was really interesting, in my opinion. I'm a little partial, but I thought that McCain generalized his responses too much, while Obama seemed to have some specific ideas and thoughts about how to solve some of our problems.

It was nice to see both of them actually talking instead of the mudslinging. I was a little taken aback by McCain's comment about deregulation of the financial markets in 1999 and how it helped out, when in fact it was exactly when this free-for-all started that has us in the mess that we are currently in.

But good to see a civilized discussion on both parts.

edit - I just noticed pujols linked the very comment that I am referring to.