GatewayRedbirds.com

i guess that there is absolutely nobody that i personally know that has ever been denied medical treatment in my entire life...so i believe you, but i have never seen this first hand.

lol @ Zogby

I'm guessing that's the one the blockhead radiotards have been citing.

cardinalkarp wrote:

jim wrote:

cardinalkarp wrote:

docellis wrote:

jim wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

I don't understand how it isn't. WIth the wealth in this country, how can we not treat our sick? It a moral responsibility to me.

i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess. maybe it is semantics, but are people actually NOT getting medical treatment?

I think the problem is that the people who pay for healthcare (us) get stuck w/ the high costs because the dead beats that don't have it still go to the dr. and get treatment.

So what? I'm fine paying for a few deadbeats if it means someone that needs it gets it.

So you're fine paying for those that decide they don't feel like getting a job (and healthcare) and go to the doctor because they got sick.

Of course I am. Aren't you?

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

israel has a special health tax, and a national health-care system. we pay a special tax - 3-4% of income for higher salaries, 0% for lower salaries - and the money is transferred to one of 4 competing health-care providers. each of these providers gets budgeted based on the percentage of the population that subscribe to it (so they do need to compete to bring new blood). when you make the choice at age 18, they have to insure you for life. if you want to switch company later in life, you are subject to them accepting you.

medical services, hospitalization, most medication, etc. is free.

it wasn't always this way. this is a relatively new arrangement, and you have to see the miracle it caused here to believe it. when it's treated as a right, and managed correctly by the government and health-care providers, the quality of life (especially of the weak) increases so much...

i don't know if it's a "right" like like "freedom of speech". but it should be as much a right as "the pursuit of happiness", or "equality before the law"...

jim wrote:

cardinalkarp wrote:

jim wrote:

cardinalkarp wrote:

docellis wrote:

jim wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

I don't understand how it isn't. WIth the wealth in this country, how can we not treat our sick? It a moral responsibility to me.

i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess. maybe it is semantics, but are people actually NOT getting medical treatment?

I think the problem is that the people who pay for healthcare (us) get stuck w/ the high costs because the dead beats that don't have it still go to the dr. and get treatment.

So what? I'm fine paying for a few deadbeats if it means someone that needs it gets it.

So you're fine paying for those that decide they don't feel like getting a job (and healthcare) and go to the doctor because they got sick.

Of course I am. Aren't you?

Nope, not if that person decides he's better off sitting on the couch all day instead of making an honest wage (and pretty much most full time jobs have some sort of healthcare).

If someone is sick and can't work then I understand that (but that's probably covered by govenment programs already). But I don't feel one bit sorry for people that decide its in their best interest to sit on the couch and think its their right to get free healthcare. I have to pay for it, why shouldn't they?

cardinalkarp wrote:

jim wrote:

cardinalkarp wrote:

jim wrote:

cardinalkarp wrote:

docellis wrote:

jim wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

I don't understand how it isn't. WIth the wealth in this country, how can we not treat our sick? It a moral responsibility to me.

i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess. maybe it is semantics, but are people actually NOT getting medical treatment?

I think the problem is that the people who pay for healthcare (us) get stuck w/ the high costs because the dead beats that don't have it still go to the dr. and get treatment.

So what? I'm fine paying for a few deadbeats if it means someone that needs it gets it.

So you're fine paying for those that decide they don't feel like getting a job (and healthcare) and go to the doctor because they got sick.

Of course I am. Aren't you?

Nope, not if that person decides he's better off sitting on the couch all day instead of making an honest wage (and pretty much most full time jobs have some sort of healthcare).

If someone is sick and can't work then I understand that (but that's probably covered by govenment programs already). But I don't feel one bit sorry for people that decide its in their best interest to sit on the couch and think its their right to get free healthcare. I have to pay for it, why shouldn't they?

How do you distinguish between lazy people and people that are down on their luck, can't get a decent job, are in situations so horrible that we can't even imagine, etc. Give them nothing just so a few deadbeats can't cheat the system? Seems like a pretty high price to pay just to give us that work peace of mind.

cardinalkarp wrote:Nope, not if that person decides he's better off sitting on the couch all day instead of making an honest wage (and pretty much most full time jobs have some sort of healthcare).

If someone is sick and can't work then I understand that (but that's probably covered by govenment programs already). But I don't feel one bit sorry for people that decide its in their best interest to sit on the couch and think its their right to get free healthcare. I have to pay for it, why shouldn't they?

I'm not trying to J-bomb the forum or even pick a fight, but this post you wrote is something I've seen written by conservatives many times over in the past five years or so. What I'm wondering is...how many people like this -- people who are unemployed and do not actively seek any sort of employment for long periods of time -- are in the United States?

docellis wrote:i guess that there is absolutely nobody that i personally know that has ever been denied medical treatment in my entire life...so i believe you, but i have never seen this first hand.

Well, I'm pretty sure it's against the law to deny someone medical treatment, but people do lose pretty much everything when they don't have adequate-to-zero insurance.

cardinalkarp wrote:So you're fine paying for those that decide they don't feel like getting a job (and healthcare) and go to the doctor because they got sick.

There are things that are so expensive that as a society we have had to socialize the costs for the greater good. Public infrastructure like roads, mass transit, clean water, education. These are all things that increase everyone's quality of life and ultimately make us richer. Health care is quickly becoming too expensive for the employer-based system to bear. I think it's inevitable that we'll have to socialize that cost.

Not to mention that the current system isn't fair. Plenty of people work their butts off but don't have insurance because their employers don't offer it. When they get sick and have to go to the emergency room or go on Medicaid, we the taxpayers have to pay for them. But only treating them when they are very sick is MUCH more expensive than providing the kind of preventative care that a national system could offer. And of course you have people who get laid off through no fault of their own, or whose employer simply stops offering insurance.

cardinalkarp wrote:

jim wrote:

cardinalkarp wrote:

jim wrote:

cardinalkarp wrote:

docellis wrote:

jim wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

I don't understand how it isn't. WIth the wealth in this country, how can we not treat our sick? It a moral responsibility to me.

i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess. maybe it is semantics, but are people actually NOT getting medical treatment?

I think the problem is that the people who pay for healthcare (us) get stuck w/ the high costs because the dead beats that don't have it still go to the dr. and get treatment.

So what? I'm fine paying for a few deadbeats if it means someone that needs it gets it.

So you're fine paying for those that decide they don't feel like getting a job (and healthcare) and go to the doctor because they got sick.

Of course I am. Aren't you?

Nope, not if that person decides he's better off sitting on the couch all day instead of making an honest wage (and pretty much most full time jobs have some sort of healthcare).

If someone is sick and can't work then I understand that (but that's probably covered by govenment programs already). But I don't feel one bit sorry for people that decide its in their best interest to sit on the couch and think its their right to get free healthcare. I have to pay for it, why shouldn't they?

Then we disagree.

arnie.k wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

israel has a special health tax, and a national health-care system. we pay a special tax - 3-4% of income for higher salaries, 0% for lower salaries - and the money is transferred to one of 4 competing health-care providers. each of these providers gets budgeted based on the percentage of the population that subscribe to it (so they do need to compete to bring new blood). when you make the choice at age 18, they have to insure you for life. if you want to switch company later in life, you are subject to them accepting you.

medical services, hospitalization, most medication, etc. is free.

it wasn't always this way. this is a relatively new arrangement, and you have to see the miracle it caused here to believe it. when it's treated as a right, and managed correctly by the government and health-care providers, the quality of life (especially of the weak) increases so much...

i don't know if it's a "right" like like "freedom of speech". but it should be as much a right as "the pursuit of happiness", or "equality before the law"...

yeah that sounds like an intelligent plan. but i guess, like you said, not really a "right".