GatewayRedbirds.com

John Kerry -- JOHN KERRY -- had the second-most votes of all-time four years ago.

The race may not be over just yet, but if Kerry of all people could garner that many votes, I think Obama could, too.

So about this Ayers thing - is there anyone voting for Obama who is troubled by it, or by Obama's accounting of their relationship? Just asking out of pure curiosity. It does seem true that Ayers hasn't really disavowed his past. He wasn't convicted of anything but he was part of a group that through it's actions could have or may have brought harm to other people.

Is it okay to work with people like that if it means good things get done? Do the ends justify the means? Or do most think we don't have a clear enough picture of how closely they worked, and what Obama knew (and when) about Ayers. Or do you think Ayers past isn't that bad to start with?

It's Ayers' past, not Obama's. He had been a professor for a long time when the two met. What about McCain and some lady he heard speak who had bombed an abortion clinic (or something like that, I didn't really pay that much attention)? I think the whole thing is ridiculous and could care less.

The only thing that bothers me is that it diverts from discussions that matter.

I'm not even clear on this whole thing. Ayers is a professor at UIC that served on some board with Obama, right? Obama said he knew him but not that well. What am I missing, or what are people saying that has everyone up in arms?

haltz wrote:I'm not even clear on this whole thing. Ayers is a professor at UIC that served on some board with Obama, right? Obama said he knew him but not that well. What am I missing, or what are people saying that has everyone up in arms?

I guess Ayers had some dinner/party for Obama when he was coming up. Obama has acted as if they barely knew each other, which seems to be untrue. But they also don't appear to have been close.

I agree with Rad, I'm just curious if anyone thinks there's any meat to the story at all.

And I meant that about both sides. I don't want to hear it from any of them. The republicans are just more desparate now, so they're pusing these type of things more.

ghostrunner wrote:So about this Ayers thing - is there anyone voting for Obama who is troubled by it, or by Obama's accounting of their relationship? Just asking out of pure curiosity. It does seem true that Ayers hasn't really disavowed his past. He wasn't convicted of anything but he was part of a group that through it's actions could have or may have brought harm to other people.

Is it okay to work with people like that if it means good things get done? Do the ends justify the means? Or do most think we don't have a clear enough picture of how closely they worked, and what Obama knew (and when) about Ayers. Or do you think Ayers past isn't that bad to start with?

It's a non issue with me.

The bigger issue to me is if anyone voting for McCain is troubled by the mean spirited and downright racist mentality of a sizeable portion of his supporters, and the sewage being thrown about by his VP pick and wife?

Am I troubled by it? No. I'm not sure why I should be. Everyone who walks on this planet has associated with a bad apple or two at some point in their life and we don't frown on them. John McCain has admiration for a guy who served 4.5 years in prison for a B&E and admitted that he planned on killing someone if necessary. Sarah Palin thinks she was helped by some preacher who went to Kenya to find a witch. As loony as it all is, they have no bearing on why I view them unfavorably. Were it McCain/Palin's ideas that I liked, I would think they are both nutty, but would put it aside.

There's a couple of pretty interesting articles on McCain and Rove in this weeks Rolling Stone if you get a chance to pick it up.

Edit: well [expletive], guess I didn't need to buy that after all.

Make Believe Maverick

The Return of Rove

I'll echo what's been said - if you are going to tie Obama to Ayers (a guy I never heard of until a couple days ago) then is McCain tied to every mistake done by our military (bombing civilians) or misdeeds done by GWB and his admin's condoning of torture etc? I mean - there is no way McCain condones torture - but under this guilt by association, does he? Or Palin - Alaska has the highest per capita share of radicals and kooks in the country ( I don't know this at all really - but when you play loose with the facts, anything is game.)

Besides- the faithful base of the GOP seem to be abandoning this Ayers thing - and is turning their sights on Obama + ACORN. Maybe that poop will stick to the wall a little better.

The Ayers thing is a sad blemish on a good man - the blemish being on McCain. Its almost unbearable to see this happen to him. Only 4 years ago after the GOP's triumphant re-election of GWB, the party started to consolidate its power and started kicking around any dissenter among the ranks - McCain being the prime one. If the trend continues and McCain loses on Nov 4, McCain will be dropped like a hot pan and shunned by these same angry cheering masses that show at his rallies. Sad but inevitable. I hope Obama will offer the guy an olive branch, because McCain's people will have cast him out.