Iraq is a Fool's Errand.

[jim]

I guess we need to just cut our losses, get out and hope the Iraqis only keep killing eachother and don't go after the rest of the world.

What do you mean by "Iraqi's". Shiites? Sunni's? Al-queda? Random car bombers?

If peace in the region is your goal and definition of success, then it won't happen.

If your ultimate goal in anything is peace you are doomed to failure.

What is your definition of the goal in Iraq? What has to happen before you are comfortable with us leaving them to govern their own country?

[wart57]

I guess we need to just cut our losses, get out and hope the Iraqis only keep killing eachother and don't go after the rest of the world.

What do you mean by "Iraqi's". Shiites? Sunni's? Al-queda? Random car bombers?

If peace in the region is your goal and definition of success, then it won't happen.

If your ultimate goal in anything is peace you are doomed to failure.

What is your definition of the goal in Iraq? What has to happen before you are comfortable with us leaving them to govern their own country?

I really don't have that answer, I thought it was a no-win situation from the start. I just think leaving right now will cause more problems than we can possibly forsee. I am not even sure what those problems will be. We can't win a war against the type of fighting that is going on over there, any humanitarian aid left behind will be in constant danger, and any military force left behind will be also. It is just a mess that we got in to without any idea how to get out of, that, to me, is the biggest failure of all.

[jim]

I guess we need to just cut our losses, get out and hope the Iraqis only keep killing eachother and don't go after the rest of the world.

What do you mean by "Iraqi's". Shiites? Sunni's? Al-queda? Random car bombers?

If peace in the region is your goal and definition of success, then it won't happen.

If your ultimate goal in anything is peace you are doomed to failure.

What is your definition of the goal in Iraq? What has to happen before you are comfortable with us leaving them to govern their own country?

I really don't have that answer, I thought it was a no-win situation from the start. I just think leaving right now will cause more problems than we can possibly forsee. I am not even sure what those problems will be. We can't win a war against the type of fighting that is going on over there, any humanitarian aid left behind will be in constant danger, and any military force left behind will be also. It is just a mess that we got in to without any idea how to get out of, that, to me, is the biggest failure of all.

We have to have an answer to that question. Otherwise you are just trying to build a house on sand. Unless you have a clear cut objective, it's just futile.

[Popeye_Card]

It is just a mess that we got in to without any idea how to get out of, that, to me, is the biggest failure of all.

Bingo. As I said in the other thread, a clear violation of the Powell Doctrine.

--P--

[wart57]

I guess we need to just cut our losses, get out and hope the Iraqis only keep killing eachother and don't go after the rest of the world.

What do you mean by "Iraqi's". Shiites? Sunni's? Al-queda? Random car bombers?

If peace in the region is your goal and definition of success, then it won't happen.

If your ultimate goal in anything is peace you are doomed to failure.

What is your definition of the goal in Iraq? What has to happen before you are comfortable with us leaving them to govern their own country?

I really don't have that answer, I thought it was a no-win situation from the start. I just think leaving right now will cause more problems than we can possibly forsee. I am not even sure what those problems will be. We can't win a war against the type of fighting that is going on over there, any humanitarian aid left behind will be in constant danger, and any military force left behind will be also. It is just a mess that we got in to without any idea how to get out of, that, to me, is the biggest failure of all.

We have to have an answer to that question. Otherwise you are just trying to build a house on sand. Unless you have a clear cut objective, it's just futile.

That answer is not up to me. Our elected officials need to find a solution that will not cause more problems. I am not trying to build any arguments, I am just very worried what will happen when the U.S. forces are pulled out. We can't stay there just to stay there, but we can't pull out at the drop of a hat after destroying half of Iraq just because we don't like the war any more.
What do you suggest we do?

[wart57]

It is just a mess that we got in to without any idea how to get out of, that, to me, is the biggest failure of all.

Bingo. As I said in the other thread, a clear violation of the Powell Doctrine.

--P--

The biggest condemtation of the current administration is the fact that they went in to a war without clear cut objectives and a way to succede. To me that is bordering on criminal.

[Popeye_Card]

It is just a mess that we got in to without any idea how to get out of, that, to me, is the biggest failure of all.

Bingo. As I said in the other thread, a clear violation of the Powell Doctrine.

--P--

The biggest condemtation of the current administration is the fact that they went in to a war without clear cut objectives and a way to succede. To me that is bordering on criminal.

I agree. And that falls on both parties, as there was a decent amount of support from Democrats for the war when it was initially proposed as well.

IMO, Powell was in the wrong position in the cabinet at the time.

--P--

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I agree. And that falls on both parties, as there was a decent amount of support from Democrats for the war when it was initially proposed as well.

IMO, Powell was in the wrong position in the cabinet at the time.

--P--

Agreed - another reason why I feel so ticked. It was a wholesale loss of wits and abdication of responsibility and discipline on account of 90% of the population.

[jim]

I guess we need to just cut our losses, get out and hope the Iraqis only keep killing eachother and don't go after the rest of the world.

What do you mean by "Iraqi's". Shiites? Sunni's? Al-queda? Random car bombers?

If peace in the region is your goal and definition of success, then it won't happen.

If your ultimate goal in anything is peace you are doomed to failure.

What is your definition of the goal in Iraq? What has to happen before you are comfortable with us leaving them to govern their own country?

I really don't have that answer, I thought it was a no-win situation from the start. I just think leaving right now will cause more problems than we can possibly forsee. I am not even sure what those problems will be. We can't win a war against the type of fighting that is going on over there, any humanitarian aid left behind will be in constant danger, and any military force left behind will be also. It is just a mess that we got in to without any idea how to get out of, that, to me, is the biggest failure of all.

We have to have an answer to that question. Otherwise you are just trying to build a house on sand. Unless you have a clear cut objective, it's just futile.

That answer is not up to me. Our elected officials need to find a solution that will not cause more problems. I am not trying to build any arguments, I am just very worried what will happen when the U.S. forces are pulled out. We can't stay there just to stay there, but we can't pull out at the drop of a hat after destroying half of Iraq just because we don't like the war any more.
What do you suggest we do?

It's sort of like asking the guy who told you not to run into the burning building what to do once you are inside...

I'm not opposed to a timetable, one where Iraq needs to stand on it's own two feet. I really do understand the potential chaos when we leave, but I'm afraid we are at a point where that is almost inevitable . I don't see that situation going away in the future, no matter how much military presence we have there. It's god awful situation that has no elegant solution.

[Popeye_Card]

I'm not opposed to a timetable, one where Iraq needs to stand on it's own two feet. I really do understand the potential chaos when we leave, but I'm afraid we are at a point where that is almost inevitable . I don't see that situation going away in the future, no matter how much military presence we have there. It's god awful situation that has no elegant solution.

Perhaps not a timetable per se, but at least sit down and define a clear acceptable end-game and exit strategy. We've been there, what, 4.5 years now and still don't know what defines "victory". Democrat, Republican--whatever. Just sit down in a room with the best military minds you can gather and figure it out.

--P--