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the REAL take-home message from the discussion between Phin, TT, et al: However we compare Kluber and Lynn, both are similar (and pretty pedestrian) prospects -- and one of them was traded for Jake Westbrook.

So why did we trade an 800-OPS, decent defensive outfielder on a team struggling to score, for a pitcher worth a pretty pedestrian prospect?

Comes down to one of two things -- either

(a) we did not receive commensurate value for what we gave up;

or

(b) veterans performing about equivalent to their contracts, do not have the trade value we like to think, and the reason we gave up Ludwick for the same pitcher valued as worth a minor league pitcher profiling as a reliever, is that that was the surcharge that was necessary to get cash thrown into the deal to pay off Westbrook's trade escalator etc. Without cash considerations, Westbrook is worth a Lance Lynn or Mitch Boggs; with cash considerations, it takes more.

And it might work in reverse too ... Trading a corner OFer -- productive and under team control for one more year but age 32 and about to double his salary -- fetches a two-month rental of a decent league-average pitcher in his walk year, plus a couple million bucks to fund the buy-out, trade bonus, etc.

Magneto2.0 wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:Some here think that Lynn = Kluber. And others don't.

The Cleveland Indians were obviously in the camp that don't, and that's all that really matters.

This is a fact? Lynn was offered??

Not much in this thread is factual. But why would the Indians get the Padres involved if they wanted Lynn?

We don't know that the Indians wanted any of the Cardinals prospects, so why assume that they did?

Personally, I'm satisfied that the Cardinals have improved their rotation significantly, probably haven't hurt themselves that much in right field, and haven't relinquished a single prospect......... not one.

Overall, things didn't work out that badly.

If the Cards got some middle infield help along with getting Westbrook I would be elated with or without Ludwick being on the team. It just hurts we didn't get that.

ConeBone69 wrote:If the Cards got some middle infield help along with getting Westbrook I would be elated with or without Ludwick being on the team. It just hurts we didn't get that.

Yeah, I agree. Could be that there just wasn't anyone out there that was really available.

Socnorb11 wrote:Overall, things didn't work out that badly.

I don't think this move this move is going to cripple the franchise or anything. What scares me is the possibility of this being reflective of the thought process of our GM; if he really thinks that giving up Ryan Ludwick (with a year remaining on arbitration) is worth a couple months of Jake Westbrook, that really terrifies me. But maybe this is just a moved that was forced upon him -- a desperate time that called for desperate measures. I don't know, time will tell. But I truly hope this move is an aberration that was driven by a legitimate lack of alternative options, as opposed to our GM thinking that this is an even trade.

Socnorb11 wrote:

ConeBone69 wrote:If the Cards got some middle infield help along with getting Westbrook I would be elated with or without Ludwick being on the team. It just hurts we didn't get that.

Yeah, I agree. Could be that there just wasn't anyone out there that was really available.

I find it really hard to believe that there was no one available that would improve on what we have in some of our current roster spots.

Mike Lowell playing third base for free, and moving Flip to second, would be an improvement. And that was available. I know there was more out there.

Socnorb11 wrote:

ConeBone69 wrote:If the Cards got some middle infield help along with getting Westbrook I would be elated with or without Ludwick being on the team. It just hurts we didn't get that.

Yeah, I agree. Could be that there just wasn't anyone out there that was really available.

I thought that at first, but I can't help but think about that thread that said the Cubs could have had Kelly Johnson for Ryan Theriot.

skmsw wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

ConeBone69 wrote:If the Cards got some middle infield help along with getting Westbrook I would be elated with or without Ludwick being on the team. It just hurts we didn't get that.

Yeah, I agree. Could be that there just wasn't anyone out there that was really available.

I find it really hard to believe that there was no one available that would improve on what we have in some of our current roster spots.

Mike Lowell playing third base for free, and moving Flip to second, would be an improvement. And that was available. I know there was more out there.

Would Lowell being an upgrade over Freese?