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ghostrunner wrote:Need a little more info though - what's our run total in those starts? The argument is that they're expected to be average, so how would an average pitcher have done in those games?

taxman wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

taxman wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

Fat Strat wrote:

"At this point, it's entirely possible that there may not be a deal out there" for pitching, Mozeliak said. "We're continuing to explore avenues, but as we speak I can't say I'm encouraged."

First, we all understand (at least I hope) that most of this is posturing. What he says in the media is not necessarily what's reality behind the closed doors.

That said, if Mo can't acquire a starter at this year's deadline -- and I mean the deadline, not the waiver deadline -- we would have to consider that a complete and utter failure. I'm actually pretty unhappy that a deal hasn't already taken place... Mo went after DeRosa and Holliday last year well before the deadline, paying probably a steeper price than he would have later to have the chance to sieze control of the division. This year we're in a close race, we have obvious and fatal needs and there are available players who could fill those needs.

Supp and Hawk just have little or no chance of giving us a win, which means that our other three starters have to be absolutely perfect (and get the run support they need) just to maintain a winning % that would get us to the playoffs (around 55-60%). That's not going to happen. We will continue to coast along as a near .500 club and we'll miss the playoffs until we get some help.

You just can't waste opportunities like this one. This club is that good, it just needs a push to get us over the edge and rolling again.

It takes two to tango, though. If the Astros want something silly like Miller and Garcia (and we don't know if they do or don't), then Mo saying "no thanks" is not a failure.

It's one thing to pass judgment on trades that are made. But unless you're sitting at the table when the deals are being discussed, it's virtually impossible to know if Mo "failed" because he didn't make a deal.

The Cards need Lohse to come back strong, and Hawksworth to hold his own.

The Astros have a much cheaper, and almomst just as effective, alternative to Oswalt that could be had for much less.

Link?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... br01.shtml

Socnorb11 wrote:

taxman wrote:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... br01.shtml

Could you help me find that part where it says he's available for chump change?

Socnorb11 wrote:

taxman wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

taxman wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

Fat Strat wrote:

"At this point, it's entirely possible that there may not be a deal out there" for pitching, Mozeliak said. "We're continuing to explore avenues, but as we speak I can't say I'm encouraged."

First, we all understand (at least I hope) that most of this is posturing. What he says in the media is not necessarily what's reality behind the closed doors.

That said, if Mo can't acquire a starter at this year's deadline -- and I mean the deadline, not the waiver deadline -- we would have to consider that a complete and utter failure. I'm actually pretty unhappy that a deal hasn't already taken place... Mo went after DeRosa and Holliday last year well before the deadline, paying probably a steeper price than he would have later to have the chance to sieze control of the division. This year we're in a close race, we have obvious and fatal needs and there are available players who could fill those needs.

Supp and Hawk just have little or no chance of giving us a win, which means that our other three starters have to be absolutely perfect (and get the run support they need) just to maintain a winning % that would get us to the playoffs (around 55-60%). That's not going to happen. We will continue to coast along as a near .500 club and we'll miss the playoffs until we get some help.

You just can't waste opportunities like this one. This club is that good, it just needs a push to get us over the edge and rolling again.

It takes two to tango, though. If the Astros want something silly like Miller and Garcia (and we don't know if they do or don't), then Mo saying "no thanks" is not a failure.

It's one thing to pass judgment on trades that are made. But unless you're sitting at the table when the deals are being discussed, it's virtually impossible to know if Mo "failed" because he didn't make a deal.

The Cards need Lohse to come back strong, and Hawksworth to hold his own.

The Astros have a much cheaper, and almomst just as effective, alternative to Oswalt that could be had for much less.

Link?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... br01.shtml

Could you help me find that part where it says he's available for chump change?

Socnorb11 wrote:

taxman wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

taxman wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

Fat Strat wrote:

"At this point, it's entirely possible that there may not be a deal out there" for pitching, Mozeliak said. "We're continuing to explore avenues, but as we speak I can't say I'm encouraged."

First, we all understand (at least I hope) that most of this is posturing. What he says in the media is not necessarily what's reality behind the closed doors.

That said, if Mo can't acquire a starter at this year's deadline -- and I mean the deadline, not the waiver deadline -- we would have to consider that a complete and utter failure. I'm actually pretty unhappy that a deal hasn't already taken place... Mo went after DeRosa and Holliday last year well before the deadline, paying probably a steeper price than he would have later to have the chance to sieze control of the division. This year we're in a close race, we have obvious and fatal needs and there are available players who could fill those needs.

Supp and Hawk just have little or no chance of giving us a win, which means that our other three starters have to be absolutely perfect (and get the run support they need) just to maintain a winning % that would get us to the playoffs (around 55-60%). That's not going to happen. We will continue to coast along as a near .500 club and we'll miss the playoffs until we get some help.

You just can't waste opportunities like this one. This club is that good, it just needs a push to get us over the edge and rolling again.

It takes two to tango, though. If the Astros want something silly like Miller and Garcia (and we don't know if they do or don't), then Mo saying "no thanks" is not a failure.

It's one thing to pass judgment on trades that are made. But unless you're sitting at the table when the deals are being discussed, it's virtually impossible to know if Mo "failed" because he didn't make a deal.

The Cards need Lohse to come back strong, and Hawksworth to hold his own.

The Astros have a much cheaper, and almomst just as effective, alternative to Oswalt that could be had for much less.

Link?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... br01.shtml

Could you help me find that part where it says he's available for chump change?

TheoSqua wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

taxman wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

taxman wrote:

Socnorb11 wrote:

Fat Strat wrote:

"At this point, it's entirely possible that there may not be a deal out there" for pitching, Mozeliak said. "We're continuing to explore avenues, but as we speak I can't say I'm encouraged."

First, we all understand (at least I hope) that most of this is posturing. What he says in the media is not necessarily what's reality behind the closed doors.

That said, if Mo can't acquire a starter at this year's deadline -- and I mean the deadline, not the waiver deadline -- we would have to consider that a complete and utter failure. I'm actually pretty unhappy that a deal hasn't already taken place... Mo went after DeRosa and Holliday last year well before the deadline, paying probably a steeper price than he would have later to have the chance to sieze control of the division. This year we're in a close race, we have obvious and fatal needs and there are available players who could fill those needs.

Supp and Hawk just have little or no chance of giving us a win, which means that our other three starters have to be absolutely perfect (and get the run support they need) just to maintain a winning % that would get us to the playoffs (around 55-60%). That's not going to happen. We will continue to coast along as a near .500 club and we'll miss the playoffs until we get some help.

You just can't waste opportunities like this one. This club is that good, it just needs a push to get us over the edge and rolling again.

It takes two to tango, though. If the Astros want something silly like Miller and Garcia (and we don't know if they do or don't), then Mo saying "no thanks" is not a failure.

It's one thing to pass judgment on trades that are made. But unless you're sitting at the table when the deals are being discussed, it's virtually impossible to know if Mo "failed" because he didn't make a deal.

The Cards need Lohse to come back strong, and Hawksworth to hold his own.

The Astros have a much cheaper, and almomst just as effective, alternative to Oswalt that could be had for much less.

Link?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... br01.shtml

Could you help me find that part where it says he's available for chump change?

Why would he be worth a lot? He's 29 on a one year deal and doesn't have a lot of long-term value. His career ERA+ is about 35 points lower than Oswalt's. His 94 ERA+ the two seasons prior to this likely means he won't even be a type B free agent.

He has very little value to Houston outside of being a stop-gap in their rotation for the remainder of the season. Houston asking as much for him as for Oswalt would be a terrible decision, keeping Oswalt has some value for Houston, keeping Myers has almost zero value for them.

ghostrunner wrote:Need a little more info though - what's our run total in those starts? The argument is that they're expected to be average, so how would an average pitcher have done in those games?

Socnorb11 wrote: Understood, but if he were so readily available, don't you think other teams would be interested as well?

It's not as simple as "hey, there's a guy that fits our needs....... let's trade for him!". Houston might over-value him. They might be getting better offers for him. They may want to keep him. We simply don't know.