I think its a combination of both. I don't have a problem including Jocketty and Duncan in the reason for the franchises success. But Tony is right there as a contributor. In fact, its seems to me those 3 have a way of working together that produces a positive feedback loop between them all. I wonder if any one of them on their own would be as successful as they have been as a team. Good question.GatewaySnayke wrote:
And I think the bigger reason is Walt Jocketty providing Tony with players such as Edmonds, Rolen, Walker, Sanders, Renteria, Williams, Kile, Isringhausen, Tavarez, Kline, Carpenter, Mulder, Calero, Suppan, Matheny, McGwire, Marquis, King, Wainwright...
If I replaced those smattering of 19 players acquired via trade or free agency with lesser players, would the Cardinals have been the class of the NL Central since 2000?
Do you think Tony LaRussa is "overrated" as a ML m
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Joe Shlabotnik
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Popeye_Card
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There weren't a whole lot of complaints after his first two seasons in St. Louis.GatewaySnayke wrote:
LOL...if that's true then Cub fans are in for a very long year with Jason Marquis.
I think they did what they could with Marquis. I think the fans have an overblown perception of his actual talent (one way or the other) and his hard-headed-ness.
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ndistops
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Someone in this thread asked someone else why he was making it sound as if managers can't help much, but they can sure hurt.
The answer is because it is true. Managers can't really help much. They can pull the best bench players to pinch-hit in situations, they can know when to pull a pitcher, but really, managers can't do much. They can sure hurt if they don't know what they're doing. Witness: 2006 Cubs. That team was bad, make no mistake, but if Dusty isn't playing bad players as much as he can, running Todd Walker out of town when he was his only competent 2nd baseman, consistently playing the wrong matchups (no one will soon forget his stupidity handling Remlinger, even though that wasn't 2006), etc., then they would have at least avoided the NL cellar.
TLR is one of those guys that disagrees with me and thinks managers can damn well win games with a bunch of pitching changes, classic over-managing moves like hit and runs and suicide squeezes, etc. etc. That's why he's overrated.
The answer is because it is true. Managers can't really help much. They can pull the best bench players to pinch-hit in situations, they can know when to pull a pitcher, but really, managers can't do much. They can sure hurt if they don't know what they're doing. Witness: 2006 Cubs. That team was bad, make no mistake, but if Dusty isn't playing bad players as much as he can, running Todd Walker out of town when he was his only competent 2nd baseman, consistently playing the wrong matchups (no one will soon forget his stupidity handling Remlinger, even though that wasn't 2006), etc., then they would have at least avoided the NL cellar.
TLR is one of those guys that disagrees with me and thinks managers can damn well win games with a bunch of pitching changes, classic over-managing moves like hit and runs and suicide squeezes, etc. etc. That's why he's overrated.
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jim
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Ok, close the poll! We have an answer. If anyone is qualified to understand how managers can lose games and not win them, it's a Cub fan.ndistops wrote:Someone in this thread asked someone else why he was making it sound as if managers can't help much, but they can sure hurt.
The answer is because it is true. Managers can't really help much. They can pull the best bench players to pinch-hit in situations, they can know when to pull a pitcher, but really, managers can't do much.
TLR is one of those guys that disagrees with me and thinks managers can damn well win games with a bunch of pitching changes, classic over-managing moves like hit and runs and suicide squeezes, etc. etc. That's why he's overrated.
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GatewaySnayke
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ndistops
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Probably none that will succeed in being convincing, which is why not enough people believe it.clement wrote:I fail to see how a manager can help a team to lose, but not have the same ability to help a team win. Is there a logical argument for this?
And what about leadership? Does that count for anything or is it just a myth?
But put simply, the best thing a manager can do is make the move that makes sense. Don't screw with the lineup unless you have a big reason to do so, don't send a hitter out to face a relief pitcher he sucks against (and vice versa), and don't needlessly risk outs.
It won't necessarily help the team win (bad players will play bad no matter what), but it gives your team the best chance to win that it can have.
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vinsanity
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I have to say absolutely not on this. A better example of a manager hurting his team would be not Pulling Pedro in 03. But if you can hurt a team, you help them by doing the correct thing. If there is more than one option for a manager (and since the name option implies choice - there is) then one will help more than the other i.e. One helps - One hurts. Often there are 3 or 4 or 5 choices especially when it comes to certain choices.ndistops wrote:The answer is because it is true. Managers can't really help much. They can sure hurt if they don't know what they're doing.
Who do I pinch hit with? - How often do you think Pinailla will pinch with Marquis?
Who do I bring in from the pin? Couple that question with when do I pull my pitcher? Or Should I wait for a double switch - there are 10-20 options there.
Do I steal? Double Steal? Sac Bunt? Hit and Run? Squeeze? Suicide Squeeze? Bunt for a hit?
With all of those options some are bound to help a team (Bringing in Wainwright to face Beltran as opposed to Looper - a closer vs an ex closer). Some are bound to be par for the course - leave Reyes in for the 9th with a 6 run lead. And some are bound to be pretty idiotic - Playing Miles...ever.
How many managers would bench an all-star, gold glove 3B in the NLCS? Don't tell me a manager can't help a team.