How do yah feel about Issy and his closing out games?

Post by **Michael** » June 5 06, 11:49 pm

Leroy wrote:I almost think this was a plant post to stir the pot. It has been edited, but it doesn't state that it was edited.

Who's the wise guy?

You mean the original post?

Leroy · Post by **Leroy** » June 6 06, 12:01 am

Michael wrote:
Leroy wrote:I almost think this was a plant post to stir the pot. It has been edited, but it doesn't state that it was edited.

Who's the wise guy?
You mean the original post?

Yeah.

Post by **Michael** » June 6 06, 12:01 am

Leroy wrote:
Michael wrote:
Leroy wrote:I almost think this was a plant post to stir the pot. It has been edited, but it doesn't state that it was edited.

Who's the wise guy?
You mean the original post?
Yeah.

How did it change? Was it trolling? The post looks fine to me now.

Leroy · Post by **Leroy** » June 6 06, 12:05 am

I'll just pm you tomorrow...I don't want to start a fight.

businessmansspecial · Post by **businessmansspecial** » June 6 06, 5:24 am

I'd like to change my earlier answer. I'm an angry girl!!

businessmansspecial · Post by **businessmansspecial** » June 6 06, 5:42 am

I admire the supporters, I really do, but anyone could have gotten out of that game without giving up a GS. Izzy isn't the great and powerful Oz and isn't the only one that can throw three outs (oh wait, he can't). Nothing against the Izzy personally, but he just isn't capable anymore. We gave the man a two-run lead and he still can't do anything with it.

Seriously, can we trade him?

fulldeck · Post by **fulldeck** » June 6 06, 5:59 am

The guy is struggling, just like any other player that has ever put on a uniform has done at one time or another. The difference is, when it is the closer, it usually leads directly in a loss.

Master of the obvious I know, but I think it still needs to be said.

He has the velocity but has lost his location. He thought he had his mechanics fixed but obviously they still need some more work. The thing I don't like, and TLR has voiced his concern on this as well, is it seems like he is losing the no fear, shake if off attitude, that is needed to close. The man is agreeing with the boos and pretty much saying he sucks. I know fans would readily agree with him right now, but closers can't lose that "air" and continue to be effective.

jim · Post by **jim** » June 6 06, 7:51 am

The whole idea of a closer, in my opinion, is not sound. You can probably trace the roots of a closer back to Sutter, a lock down bullpen ace that was used in the late innings (often the 8th and 9th). It worked, because Sutter was really, really good. A few other teams took these lockdown bullpen guys and used them at the end of a game, and the closer was born. For those of you 20-somethings, you have lived your entire life with a closer and a 5 man rotation. It hasn't always been like that.

So every team decided they had to have a closer, even if the guy annointed was not a lockdown guy. What we have now, is maybe 3-4 guys capable of being that role, but all 30 teams using someone in that role.

Tyler Johnson was available to pitch to Griffey. Johnson has been a bear on lefties, Griffey doesn't hit lefties as well. But Johnson apparently doesn't have the appointed mojo to pitch in the 9th inning.

But a couple of weeks ago, Ozzie Guillen brought in a rookie lefthander to get 2 lefty bats out to "close" out a 1 run game, while the "closer" was in the bullpen. This was not an issue with tiredness or availability of a pitcher, it was strictly a matchup issue.

Right now, Izzy is not our bullpen ace. Numbers that point out the obvious:

Strikes: 212
Balls: 206
AVG/OBP/SLG: 214/383/393
HR9: 1.57

Can I go into my disdain for the "Save" stat? I saw Izzy save a game this year, a 1-0 win over the Mets. That's a save. Coming in with a lead in the 9th with nobody on base is not a save. A 3 run lead with nobody on base, well you don't need to pay a guy millions to close that out.

And all of this puts a premium on the salary.

And this 9th inning mojo stuff is crap. These are major league baseball players, and if they can't come into the 9th inning of a game to pitch they aren't going to last, or probably never would have gotten to the bigs to begin with. Boston, a team in my mind that is more progressive in thinking out of the box than most, is doing just fine with a rookie who was and is projected as a starter. There isn't a guy in our bullpen who doesn't have the mojo needed to close a game out, it's just that not all of them can reliably get through an inning.

I'm just rambling, because I'm upset more about the programmed way managers use their bullpen now, and the fact that we lost a tough one last night. (I can write a C program in 15 minutes that will make the exact bullpen decisions that most managers make).

Pay no attention.

mcgee51taguchi99 · Post by **mcgee51taguchi99** » June 6 06, 7:56 am

I'm surprised this went so far. I kinda figured the spelling - (s)Issy - was a tipoff for a first post.

edit: yeah the original has changed a lot - I recall is mentioning "Issy" quite a few times

Faceman · Post by **Faceman** » June 6 06, 8:04 am

businessmansspecial wrote:I admire the supporters, I really do, but anyone could have gotten out of that game without giving up a GS. Izzy isn't the great and powerful Oz and isn't the only one that can throw three outs (oh wait, he can't). Nothing against the Izzy personally, but he just isn't capable anymore. We gave the man a two-run lead and he still can't do anything with it.

Seriously, can we trade him?

No, he is as untradeable as they come. He makes a lot of money and isn't performing well. We'd eat his entire salary, get next to nothing for him, and still have to replace him.

If Lidge can temporarily be taken from the closer's role, so can Izzy. He needs a break. He's throwing too many pitches.