Why all the hate for the suburbs?

[Popeye_Card]

I do enjoy ribbing those folks, but I don't honestly think any less of them. Especially if you've got kids and stuff, as others have alluded to, I can understand how the 'burbs would have some appeal.

I get really confused when single dudes with no kids buy a house in the suburbs. Mostly because I have no idea what the thought process of priorities is behind that decision--are they actively looking to start a family without even a girlfriend first? But that's about it.

[UK]

My preferred dwelling places follow the simple formula that says the livability of an area is an inverse relation to the number of Starbucks in the area.

You're gonna eventually run out of places to live then.

I know of a place or two that are Starbucks proof.

++

There isnt one closer than prob. 5 miles for me.

[JL21]

I do enjoy ribbing those folks, but I don't honestly think any less of them. Especially if you've got kids and stuff, as others have alluded to, I can understand how the 'burbs would have some appeal.

I get really confused when single dudes with no kids buy a house in the suburbs. Mostly because I have no idea what the thought process of priorities is behind that decision--are they actively looking to start a family without even a girlfriend first? But that's about it.

Agreed. That's one I really don't understand. I guess property value, maybe? But even then, there are lots of houses in the city that can be turned around with a little work at a much higher ROI.

[clement]

Interesting thread. Personally, I really dislike suburbs (the stereotypical ones, I realize there are different kinds of suburbs). I grew up in one so I know what they're like. I don't like chain restaurants and chain stores everywhere and I don't like strip malls. And I concur with the disdain for track housing and mass produced neighborhoods. But also I just find suburban lifestyle to be boring for me.

But I can say that I have defended my suburban upbringing at times. There was sort of this ability to experience both a rural-ish lifestyle while having quick and easy access to the things that a city has to offer. But my experience was that most of my neighbors (and friends) didn't actually make use of the city. My family wasn't like that. We frequently went downtown, to U city, the west end, the hill, and other areas from the time I was very young. Of course maybe that was because my first 7 years were spent in Richmond Heights, which was more urban than the Creve Coeur area I lived from age 7 onwards.

But back then in my Creve Coeur neighborhood, we had a farm 3 houses away from ours, and there were many other farms nearby too. Also there were woods everywhere and we used to explore all these areas. Fishing, hiking, etc and sports were everyday activities. But all those nature places are gone today. I'd absolutely hate to grow up now where I grew up back then based on how it is today and the way it has changed. All it offers now is a few trees and yards. But there is hardly the rural-ish atmosphere that existed 25-30 years ago.

I think it's interesting how the concept of family always comes into these discussions. In many other places there is nothing about city life that is contrary to rearing families. The problem lies with the whole way US cities and suburbs evolved in the middle and late 20th century. While our European counterparts were building effective transportation systems and taxing gasoline, we were experiencing phenomena like white flight and the desire for bigger and bigger yards and homes. In a city like Paris, by and large you'd much rather raise your child in Paris proper than in the suburbs. They have the reverse problem, where many suburbs have developed into ghettos and the schools in suburban Paris are inferior (and more dangerous) to those in the city. In many cities around the world, the idea of kids hopping on public buses and subways to go to school is the norm.

I think someone at the beginning of the thread said something about feeling sorry for people who grew up in Manhattan. I had to lol because I think it would be a great place to grow up. I know there is someone on this board who went to one of the Manhattan (or Bronx) schools and when he listed the names of people who went to his alma mater, it read like hall of fame of people from all walks of life. I think the mentality in America is so engrained that suburban or rural life is a better environment to raise kids, but I'm not sure why. If you were able to reduce the crime and drug problems in the cities, I think an urban upbringing would be superior to a suburban one, and just different from a rural one. And these days kids aren't immune from things like drugs and crime simply because they are growing up in suburbs. Nowadays there are good and bad neighborhoods in both kinds of environments, it just depends which suburb or which part of the city you are living.

I'm with Popeye though. I just love getting up and going for a walk to do my grocery shopping, going to a cafe, or meeting friends. Aside from going to work, I pretty much walk or cycle to do everything I need to do, and it's just a really pleasant existence. Whenever I go home to visit my parents, the only walking I do is to and from the car.

[jim]

Interesting thread. Personally, I really dislike suburbs (the stereotypical ones, I realize there are different kinds of suburbs). I grew up in one so I know what they're like. I don't like chain restaurants and chain stores everywhere and I don't like strip malls. And I concur with the disdain for track housing and mass produced neighborhoods. But also I just find suburban lifestyle to be boring for me.

But I can say that I have defended my suburban upbringing at times. There was sort of this ability to experience both a rural-ish lifestyle while having quick and easy access to the things that a city has to offer. But my experience was that most of my neighbors (and friends) didn't actually make use of the city. My family wasn't like that. We frequently went downtown, to U city, the west end, the hill, and other areas from the time I was very young. Of course maybe that was because my first 7 years were spent in Richmond Heights, which was more urban than the Creve Coeur area I lived from age 7 onwards.

But back then in my Creve Coeur neighborhood, we had a farm 3 houses away from ours, and there were many other farms nearby too. Also there were woods everywhere and we used to explore all these areas. Fishing, hiking, etc and sports were everyday activities. But all those nature places are gone today. I'd absolutely hate to grow up now where I grew up back then based on how it is today and the way it has changed. All it offers now is a few trees and yards. But there is hardly the rural-ish atmosphere that existed 25-30 years ago.

I think it's interesting how the concept of family always comes into these discussions. In many other places there is nothing about city life that is contrary to rearing families. The problem lies with the whole way US cities and suburbs evolved in the middle and late 20th century. While our European counterparts were building effective transportation systems and taxing gasoline, we were experiencing phenomena like white flight and the desire for bigger and bigger yards and homes. In a city like Paris, by and large you'd much rather raise your child in Paris proper than in the suburbs. They have the reverse problem, where many suburbs have developed into ghettos and the schools in suburban Paris are inferior (and more dangerous) to those in the city. In many cities around the world, the idea of kids hopping on public buses and subways to go to school is the norm.

I think someone at the beginning of the thread said something about feeling sorry for people who grew up in Manhattan. I had to lol because I think it would be a great place to grow up. I know there is someone on this board who went to one of the Manhattan (or Bronx) schools and when he listed the names of people who went to his alma mater, it read like hall of fame of people from all walks of life. I think the mentality in America is so engrained that suburban or rural life is a better environment to raise kids, but I'm not sure why. If you were able to reduce the crime and drug problems in the cities, I think an urban upbringing would be superior to a suburban one, and just different from a rural one. And these days kids aren't immune from things like drugs and crime simply because they are growing up in suburbs. Nowadays there are good and bad neighborhoods in both kinds of environments, it just depends which suburb or which part of the city you are living.

I'm with Popeye though. I just love getting up and going for a walk to do my grocery shopping, going to a cafe, or meeting friends. Aside from going to work, I pretty much walk or cycle to do everything I need to do, and it's just a really pleasant existence. Whenever I go home to visit my parents, the only walking I do is to and from the car.

I have to disagree with that statement, there is nothing remotely rural about suburbs. If you think for a moment you experienced rural life in any way, shape, or form I can tell you you did not. Just seeing grass and a cornfield doesn't make it so. That's my problem with the burbs - it's like a compromise that doens't give the either the city or the rural life. I personally could never live in a city, the thought of even visiting Manhattan is enough to give me the willies let alone grow up there. But I understand it, much like I understand rural life which is where I feel more comfortable.

The big advantage that I see with families is the schools. I've heard many of my European coworkers talk about how everthing there is backwards from here ... the best schools are in the cities and the burbs are equivalent to our city schools. I think in the US the best schools are in suburban areas.

[omaha_red]

i heard you guys worship satan in the 'burbs.. is that true?

[JL21]

jim's post made me realize something. Has anyone in this thread badmouthed rural life?

I grew up rural and I can't say enough good things about it. Obviously, living in STL, that's not much of an option unless you want an hour drive to work every day. But given the choice between 'burbs, rural, and city, I'd probably choose rural.

[New Pagodi]

I've only skimmed this thread, so sorry if I'm repeating anything here. In St. Louis, the suburbs are especially bad because of the relatively small size of the city itself with numerous even smaller suburbs surrounding it. The suburbs are essentially parasitic on the city in numerous ways. The residents use our zoo/stadiums/attractions without supporting them with taxes. The camp legions of police cars on the borders to hand out speeding tickets to anyone going a mile over the speed limit as they leave the city. They fight tooth and nail to withhold every penny from metro possible.

[Popeye_Card]

jim's post made me realize something. Has anyone in this thread badmouthed rural life?

I grew up rural and I can't say enough good things about it. Obviously, living in STL, that's not much of an option unless you want an hour drive to work every day. But given the choice between 'burbs, rural, and city, I'd probably choose rural.

I grew up extremely rural--10 miles outside of a city of 5000. I certainly don't think it was a bad experience, but I'd personally rather live in the city.

I do like going home to drink though. Can't beat (regular price) 75 cent drafts.

If I had to rank, it would be 1.) urban, 2.) rural, 3.) inner suburbs (Webster, Maplewood, etc.), 4.) subdivision-type suburbs.

[ghostrunner]

I have to disagree with that statement, there is nothing remotely rural about suburbs. If you think for a moment you experienced rural life in any way, shape, or form I can tell you you did not. Just seeing grass and a cornfield doesn't make it so.

There can't be degrees of rural? Come on. You can't say that about all suburbs. I played in the woods every weekend as a kid. We had a creek in our woods that I played in and jumped over, and swung across with vines that grew on the trees. We found crayfish in the creek, and got burrs on our socks and bumps from stinging nettles. Granted this is a more remote suburb I grew up in, but I wouldn't call it a "rural" area. It IS more rural than being in the city though, there's no question about it.

Maybe we're getting hung up on what rural means. it wasn't farmlife, but there was a lot more nature around me as a kid than there would have been in the city. I loved it and wouldn't trade it for anything.