Rant: Tip Culture

[cardsfansince82]

The big corporate restaurants are the problem children. Do the math in your head. What does an average server at Denny's make per cover in tip? $2? To get to just $30K/year that server has to do like 60 covers per shift, 5 days/week without a break. That's messed up. There's a lot more Denny's and their ilk than there are fine dining restaurants and upscale neighborhood restaurants, so the industry trend is going to be driven by them.

It disappoints and frustrates me that many people have a hard time making a living in this country, restaurants or other. I'm lucky that I'm not involved in the really crappy side of the industry. None of the stuff in that buzzfeed thing embarrasses me, because I happy to say we do all those things the right way and treat our employees well.

Gee, I wonder why there are more Denny's? Maybe because 95% of the population can't afford fine dining, even the ones that charge "only" $80 a bottle.

First, you're way in the [expletive] out of line with that comment. You wanna tell Haltz or Fan_In_NY that they're somehow less than good people or what they're doing is somehow a less-than-noble thing because they sell expensive F&B stuff to people who can afford it?

There are more Denny's because the margins at Denny's are huge because their food cost for a Grand Slam Stuff Your Fat Self Breakfast Of Champions is like 8 cents in eggs, 20 cents in bacon, 3 cents in bread and 10 cents in potatoes, if that. That that gets marked up to like $7, for something like a 1800% markup, is more gouging than me selling a bottle of wine that costs me $60 for $80. They don't bridge the gap between food cost and cost to the consumer via labor, FF&E, utility, franchising fees, etc. There are more because they're way more profitable. And if you wana get all socioeconomic about it, their placement near freeway exits where it's convenient for even the laziest traveller to go "oh, Denny's, fine", their purveying of artery-clogging [expletive], and the wage they pay their staff is where you can find all your offense.

Sorry to interrupt your humble brag fest that's going on. Show me where I criticized anyone for working where they work. I don't give a [expletive] what Denny's mark up is. A couple can eat there for $20 or somewhere you approve of for $100+. When the median income in this country is $50k it's not hard to figure out what they are going to choose.

Yes, it's virtually impossible to detect any judgement in your post, you're right.

Someone on an average wage (though not someone who works at Denny's) can eat at Denny's where the food is cheap largely because the waitress is on food stamps.

They're way better for the 'average American' than what I do.

Well at least save the half hearted concern about people not making a decent living for others living in your cocoon. Fine dining in its current iteration cannot exist without huge income disparities.

It's not an either/or proposition where Denny's and upscale places are the only options. I haven't willingly eaten at any kind of chain restaurant in a long time. There are a lot of places where I can get a great meal for under $20 and they don't pass all of the burden of paying their employees a decent wage onto the customer. Those places do exist, believe it or not, and somehow manage to stay open.

[haltz]

I can't imagine that income disparity does anything to help any type of restaurant. The glory days were when the middle class had discretionary income and corporate expense accounts hadn't been slashed. It's not as if the 1% go out to eat more because he/she put another billion dollars in the bank.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

FWIW, probably not much, a person making minimum wage and still getting tips at Denny's is going to be living paycheck to paycheck as well. Their problem isn't so much that they're making $2.15/hour, it's that their tip% is automatically lower because it's Denny's (I'd guess 15% is a good tip there....no proof) and they're making that % off a ticket with no booze & cheap(ish) food.

Tips included, I'd guess they still make more than minimum wage though. That said, we shouldn't be using minimum wage as a standard for 'making it' or 'getting by' or 'doing well' or whatever.

[lukethedrifter]

Thanks Herman Cain

[cardsfansince82]

I can't imagine that income disparity does anything to help any type of restaurant. The glory days were when the middle class had discretionary income and corporate expense accounts hadn't been slashed. It's not as if the 1% go out to eat more because he/she put another billion dollars in the bank.

If everyone at Walmart and all the other low paid jobs suddenly made $40k instead of $20k I don't think they are going to start thinking $80 for a bottle of wine is a great deal. They're probably going to eat at the same places they always eat, just more often. Maybe they could splurge a time or two a year for special occasions but I'm not sure that's enough to make the high end places busier. In order for those workers to make 40 that's a lot less money for the execs and shareholders, who might actually go to those places regularly.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The big corporate restaurants are the problem children. Do the math in your head. What does an average server at Denny's make per cover in tip? $2? To get to just $30K/year that server has to do like 60 covers per shift, 5 days/week without a break. That's messed up. There's a lot more Denny's and their ilk than there are fine dining restaurants and upscale neighborhood restaurants, so the industry trend is going to be driven by them.

I've always felt there was something missing to this type of question, so maybe you can help me understand. Helping 60 people in a day to earn 30k per year, to me that doesn't seem outrageous, considering the average table is certainly at least 2 people. And that's Denny's, which is the absolute bottom of the barrel for pricing of restaurants with wait staff. And to go one step further, the whole conversation assumes that 30k is an appropriate wage for a server at a place like Denny's. Don't get me wrong, I don't think people should be forced to poverty, but (and this takes things in a more political direction which I really hate) I personally think that's something we shouldn't be relying on employers or consumers to artificially fix. Again, maybe I'm missing something, but the math always seemed fine to me. If it wasn't then there's a host of other jobs in that pay range that don't rely on tips that you'd think people would flock to.

Sincerely, someone who tips 20% for all but the most terrible of service

[33anda3rd]

TT--that server at Denny's doesn't do 60 covers/shift, pushing her/him to $30k/year. The poverty level is a little over $11k for a household of one. For a household of two (let's say our Denny's server is a single parent) it's $15k. That's about what a Denny's server would earn doing five shifts/week, no vacation, no sick days, in a year. I probably didn't do a good job of saying it, but I was trying to do a "there's no way a server at Denny's gets even close to $30K/year" thing there.

I agree with you that moving that Denny's server up the ladder is not the responsibility of the customer via tips. We shouldn't feel like we have to tip the Denny's server 100% on our $7 breakfast so that she won't starve. After all, we're in Denny's for a cheap breakfast, right? A little bit of it is on the employer: I think if you can say honestly "I'm paying my employees a fair wage and benefit package for their service" then you're fine. There are many people out there, LLC owners much like Herman Cain and those he represented, who have a big portfolio of restaurants that they own and never enter, who look at P&L statements and that's as close as they get. They have no clue who their staff is, or how they live. If they could fire one tomorrow and get by, saving $10K/year, no sweat. Those folks are the problem in the restaurant industry, and they own an enormous number of restaurant and bar seats in this country. Mostly, though, it's on the employee. Jobs that require the hardest work often require the least skill, and adding a skill means reducing how physically hard you have to work in life. More than anything it's up to the Denny's server to improve her own situation, even if that means a baby step like moving up to the dinner shift at the Chili's across the street.

If everyone at Walmart and all the other low paid jobs suddenly made $40k instead of $20k I don't think they are going to start thinking $80 for a bottle of wine is a great deal.

You're really hung up on this idea that only the 1% goes out and splurges on an $80 bottle of wine. I'm not sure where you live, but where I live that's not reality. People who make $40k/year in Chicago do that. Some people who make even less do. They don't do it every day, or even every month, but on occasion they do. They live in the city, and have a roommate or two who also makes $40k/year. Their 'household income' is over $100k due to the roommate thing and they're young, single, childless, and splitting basic expenses. $80 for a bottle of wine on date night in an upscale neighborhood restaurant (not "fine dining"--that describes a place where $80/bottle is the norm, not the expensive stuff) is not a big splurge for a lot of people in Chicago--provided they see that $80 as a value. The majority of our our customers would never spend that--it's certainly not the core of our business, it's just one thing we do to bring in and satisfy and get some word of mouth among those people who go "Whoa, $80 for this bottle of altesse? It would be $140 in the West Loop, let's splurge because we'll never see it this cheap again?"

You can't judge those people as being part of the problem in this country. Sorry, but you can't. If you're gonna say that then you have to say that someone who buys their kid a $60 video game is the problem too. And the dad who takes the family to a ballgame every summer for $300 for just four hours of entertainment is living the high life that others unfairly can't afford--then you can make [expletive] comments in quotes about how a baseball game is "only" $300 for a family and insinuate that DeWitt is catering to the super wealthy, for shame, for shame.

[Diddy]

There are more Denny's because the margins at Denny's are huge because their food cost for a Grand Slam Stuff Your Fat Self Breakfast Of Champions is like 8 cents in eggs, 20 cents in bacon, 3 cents in bread and 10 cents in potatoes, if that. That that gets marked up to like $7, for something like a 1800%

41 cents that's way out of line. I raise my own stuff and would have way more then that in what you described.

[Diddy]

33 seems way off base Denny's isn't supposed to be a career. Most of the people that I see serving at those types of restaurants are students. I had friends in college that did this and made more then most of my friends working other jobs did. I had a pretty good paying college gig and they would come home with about the same as me. They generally got a free meal as well.

I don't have a problem with fine dining or upscale establishments. Those people are good at what they do and have made that into a career but the majority of wait staff jobs in this country are not supposed to be a career. Every job is not meant to be a career and don't get paid as such.

[Arthur Dent]