Rant/Rave: Bourbon

[haltz]

And I'm saying that it's not a different thing, it's more specific (which that Pernod Ricard commercial called barsmarts supports). All TN whiskey qualifies as bourbon, not all bourbon qualifies as TN whiskey, which has only been legally recognized for a decade or two

[lukethedrifter]

Venn diagram please.

[themiddle54]

Almost everything that furthers ones bar education is an ad for a spirits brand. How many USBG events do you attend that are not sponsored by Bacardi or Bombay or whatever? I'm glad I did BarSmarts, and intend to do the Advanced at some point in the next year.

If you find a bourbon that has a higher than 79% blend of corn in the mash bill--Hudson makes a 100% corn bourbon, Old Charter from BT, some of the wheated bourbons that push up to 80% corn--they can't become TN whiskey because TN whiskey says you can't go over79% corn. So there are bourbons out there that fall under the guidelines of what a bourbon can be and that would disqualify them as TN whiskey.

[lukethedrifter]

Almost everything that furthers ones bar education is an ad for a spirits brand. How many USBG events do you attend that are not sponsored by Bacardi or Bombay or whatever? I'm glad I did BarSmarts, and intend to do the Advanced at some point in the next year.

If you find a bourbon that has a higher than 79% blend of corn in the mash bill--Hudson makes a 100% corn bourbon, Old Charter from BT, some of the wheated bourbons that push up to 80% corn--they can't become TN whiskey because TN whiskey says you can't go over79% corn. So there are bourbons out there that fall under the guidelines of what a bourbon can be and that would disqualify them as TN whiskey.

Quick with the Venn diagram.

All Tennessee whiskeys are qualified to be called bourbon. Only Tennessee whiskeys are qualified to be called such.

[themiddle54]

Tennessee whiskey is filtered prior to putting it in a barrel, which is against the laws of what you can do to call something a bourbon, and therefore is not a bourbon. At least, that's my take on it, as I understand it from what I've learned over the years.

To make Tennessee whiskey, you must follow the guidelines for making bourbon (except that TN can't go over 79% corn), but then you do something different to it--the subtractive process of charcoal filtering that removes congeners/flavor, making a smoother whiskey--that disqualifies it as being technically 'bourbon.' It's like putting on a third wheel and insisting it's still a bicycle, not a tricycle, even though everything else is the same.

You could, technically, call a TN whiskey a bourbon but that added step does make it something different. So maybe it's more like putting bacon on a hamburger than adding a third wheel to a bike.

Edit to add...If I'm writing a whiskey list, I'm putting Jack and Dickel in a category outside bourbon, to mark the distinction between the two.

[haltz]

I liked barsmarts. I probably won't take the advanced class because I no longer imbibe, but my gf said it was worthwhile when she took it.

My stance is that TN whiskeys qualify as bourbon but for marketing reasons have always eschewed the label. There is nothing in the legal definition of bourbon re filtering and while Jack actually filters through charcoal - Dickel steeps and Prichards does neither, all are TN whiskey (in the case of Dickel it is whisky). Doing it after aging just removes cloudiness (Bookers does neither and is a bourbon), and in either case it's a subtractive process that doesn't change the flavor profile, only mellows it

[themiddle54]

I know this is hyper-nitpicky, but isn't mellowing the flavor a change to the flavor profile? Level of intensity is part of flavor.

[haltz]

Those mashbill TN whiskey requirements are state laws that are intentionally stringent and enacted in 2013 by lobbyists for guess who. In foreign trade agreements TN whiskeys are literally defined as straight bourbon whiskeys made in TN

[haltz]

I know this is hyper-nitpicky, but isn't mellowing the flavor a change to the flavor profile? Level of intensity is part of flavor.

I would say it isn't, but I understand where you're coming from

[haltz]

Here is the spirits portion of NAFTA (parts two and three cover Canadian whiskey and Tequila/Mezcal)

Annex 313: Distinctive Products

1. Canada and Mexico shall recognize Bourbon Whiskey and Tennessee Whiskey, which is a straight Bourbon Whiskey authorized to be produced only in the State of Tennessee, as distinctive products of the United States. Accordingly, Canada and Mexico shall not permit the sale of any product as Bourbon Whiskey or Tennessee Whiskey, unless it has been manufactured in the United States in accordance with the laws and regulations of the United States governing the manufacture of Bourbon Whiskey and Tennessee Whiskey.

On May 13th 2013, Bill Haslam, governor of Tennessee (TN) signed House Bill 1084, which created the first state law to define what can be called Tennessee Whiskey. The law defines TN whiskey as: a spirit manufactured in TN; filtered through maple charcoal prior to aging, also know as the Lincoln County Process; made from grain that consists of at least 51% corn; distilled to no more than 160 proof (80% abv); aged in new charred oak barrels; placed in the barrel at no more than 125 proof (62.5% abv); and, bottled at not less than 80 proof (40% abv).

The last five parts of the definition mentioned above mirrors the Federal Standard of Identity for bourbon created by the Alcohol Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau. Hopefully the introduction of this state law will put the rest the seemingly endless debate about whether or not TN whiskey was a bourbon. This law and others illustrate that as bourbon is a subset of whiskey, TN whiskey is a subset of bourbon.
...
The Irony of this is that the only operating distillery in Lincoln County doesn't use the Lincoln County Process on their spirits. Prichard, which opened in 1997, has never filtered their spirits through maple charcoal before aging, so they sought and received an exemption for that portion of the law from the state legislature.
...
Ultimately, the primary impact of this law will be on the new craft distilleries that have and will open in Tennessee. These distilleries will be required to filter their spirits using Lincoln County Process before they go into the barrel.

https://www.ezdrinking.com/ezdrinking/2 ... definition

While Jack Daniel's supported the 2013 legislation, stating it was necessary to bring the quality of Tennessee whiskey to the level of bourbons and Scotches, some of the state's smaller distilleries opposed it, arguing the process required by the law was too close to the process used by Jack Daniel's. Phil Prichard, the owner and distiller of Benjamin Prichard's, stated, "If I wanted my whiskey to taste like Jack Daniel's, I would make it like Jack Daniel's." Jeff Arnett, the Master Distiller at Jack Daniel's, noted that stringent requirements were required by Scotch makers in Scotland and Champagne makers in France, and said that Tennessee whiskey should be treated no differently.[11]

In 2014, legislation was introduced in the Tennessee state legislature that would amend the 2013 law to allow the reuse of barrels in the aging process. Diageo, which owns George Dickel, supported the proposed change. Arnett blasted the proposed amendment, going as far as to accuse Diageo of attempting to weaken the quality of Tennessee whiskey to protect its Scotch and bourbon brands. Diageo argued that the 2013 law was an attempt by Jack Daniel's to push smaller competitors out of the market.[5] (Such "smaller competitors" would presumably not include Diageo itself, since Diageo is several times the size of the company that owns Jack Daniel's.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee ... _producers

Since they're the only two distilleries to survive an extended prohibition and county laws Dickel and Jack have had basically a monopoly on TN whiskey which is nomenclature that they came up with to differentiate their product from the notherners in Kentucky. Jack filters their whiskey through maple charcoal and Dickel bathes theirs with charcoal in a 40 degree bath. I don't think the latter even counts as "filtering". Maybe "clarifying"?

In 1997 Prichard's is established and decides to do neither and call it TN whiskey anyway since it's only federally defined as bourbon made in Tennessee.

In 2009 half the state is opened up to distilleries and Jack (Brown Forman) decides to make it as hard on start-ups as possible with strict laws, basically mirroring their process of course, passing legislation in 2013 and granting Prichard's an exemption. Presumably Diageo opposed the law in favor of a cheaper bottom line for Dickel products. Four year old laws are basically irrelevant in the history of American whiskey and even still this makes TN whiskey technically a subset of bourbon, since filtration as a subtractive process is not federally regulated and mostly an exercise in fat-washing for cosmetic purposes.