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Richie Allen wrote:

InvincibleCakeEater wrote:So, then what about Desert Fox?

What does Rommel have to do with it?

Sorry, Operation Desert Fox.

clement wrote:

cards2468 wrote:

InvincibleCakeEater wrote:

cards2468 wrote:From the who will you vote for thread, here'es my response to Clement's request:

Clinton completely halted military development while in office. He tried to revitalize the obsolete ABM treaty rather than invest in anti-missile defense systems that provide REAL security to Americans. Evidence even suggests he sold advanced missile technology to China while in office. The whole Somalian conflict demonstrated how half-assed he ran the military while in office.

So, then what about Desert Fox?

And if the Somalian conflict means a piss poor run military, how the hell can someone begin to explain our situation in Iraq and Afghanistan right now?

We're following through with what we started rather than pulling out in the heat of conflict, I see no correlation what-so-ever in what you're pointing out

So getting our military engaged in ill-advised conflicts isn't part of doing a lousy job of running a military? By the way, it was G WH Bush not Clinton who got us in Somalia as well and sold it to the American public as a humanitarian mission.

It was Clinton who [expletive] up the battle of mogadishu

So who [expletive] up the Iraq and Afganistan Wars? Clinton too?

I guess Clinton doesn't get credit for what he accomplished in Bosnia and Kosovo though, right?

Clinton inherited another misleading intervention in Somalia. Look at Somalia now, it's still a mess. I guess he should have stayed the course though.

clement wrote:So who [expletive] up the Iraq and Afganistan Wars? Clinton too?

I guess Clinton doesn't get credit for what he accomplished in Bosnia and Kosovo though, right?

Clinton inherited another misleading intervention in Somalia. Look at Somalia now, it's still a mess. I guess he should have stayed the course though.

My dad blames Clinton for the current economy woes. I swear to God, I'm not kidding.

clement wrote:So who [expletive] up the Iraq and Afganistan Wars? Clinton too?

I guess Clinton doesn't get credit for what he accomplished in Bosnia and Kosovo though, right?

Clinton inherited another misleading intervention in Somalia. Look at Somalia now, it's still a mess. I guess he should have stayed the course though.

Gotta finish what you start though, right?

At least Clinton's [expletive] up minimized the number of casualties of US troops. He very easily could have just called for more troops to run in there and get massacred. We've had what, 4,000 soldiers killed since our "Mission was Accomplished" in Iraq?

Posted earlier on Kos, but this bad news for Socialist-hating conservatives who are going to head to their bomb shelters when Barack Marx takes the Oval Office:

A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist—Philip Gourevitch, of this magazine—that "we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs."

OMFG! It's like she read the Communist Manifesto! Some of you must be disheartened by this news. All that spreading and sharing in the wealth, collective ownership, the fact that she gives Alaskans a check once per year when some of those lazy ice-fishing bastards didn't even earn it.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm planning a move to the Welfare State.

PujolJunkie wrote:

clement wrote:So who [expletive] up the Iraq and Afganistan Wars? Clinton too?

I guess Clinton doesn't get credit for what he accomplished in Bosnia and Kosovo though, right?

Clinton inherited another misleading intervention in Somalia. Look at Somalia now, it's still a mess. I guess he should have stayed the course though.

My dad blames Clinton for the current economy woes. I swear to God, I'm not kidding.

Yep. Reagan and Bush set up the success of the 90s, while Clinton set up the failures of this decade.

InvincibleCakeEater wrote:

clement wrote:So who [expletive] up the Iraq and Afganistan Wars? Clinton too?

I guess Clinton doesn't get credit for what he accomplished in Bosnia and Kosovo though, right?

Clinton inherited another misleading intervention in Somalia. Look at Somalia now, it's still a mess. I guess he should have stayed the course though.

Gotta finish what you start though, right?

At least Clinton's [expletive] up minimized the number of casualties of US troops. He very easily could have just called for more troops to run in there and get massacred. We've had what, 4,000 soldiers killed since our "Mission was Accomplished" in Iraq?

Following up with Blackhawk Down, the History channel interviewed a good number of men that were involved in the conflict, and each of them were incredibly bitter with Clinton. They claimed they didn't need more men at all, they needed more vehicles, but he refused to supply them with proper equipment forcing them to be dropped in the city via helicopter, which led to many casualties, I want to say 19. It's not about throwing lives at the problem, it's about operating smart, which Clinton did not do in Somalia

I won't deny that there were some big problems in the way that Clinton handled Somalia, though I think it had less to do with military decisions and more to do with strategic decisions (switching from a humanitarian operation to a nation-building one). No doubt that Somalia desperately needed nation-building, but as Clinton learned pretty quickly, the cost of of doing would not be small.

The part that I don't get is how Clinton gets blamed for his lousy handling of the military for one poorly managed inherited conflict in the first months of his 8 year presidency, one that he quickly extricated the country from; while he followed that up with successful interventions in other parts of the world. Meanwhile no mention is made of the utter and complete disaster of the current president's handling of the military.

If our military has ever been gutted in recent history, it's right now.