"not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

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Socnorb11
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Re: "not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

Post by Socnorb11 »

Tim wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote: Do the best you can in 2018, and then go all-in for 2019, when the pieces should line up more to our liking.
Zero chance this happens with this ownership.

You realize they were the highest bidder for Stanton just a month ago, right?

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Re: "not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

That still wouldn’t be going all in.

They also could’ve pivoted to Ozuna after Stanton but added Nicasio and Reed, and it would’ve been the same AAV added as just Stanton.

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Re: "not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

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MrCrowesGarden wrote:That still wouldn’t be going all in.

They also could’ve pivoted to Ozuna after Stanton but added Nicasio and Reed, and it would’ve been the same AAV added as just Stanton.

What's "all in" for you? Signing every significant free agent on the market?

I think some of you are going to be eating crow in 2019, when the team is REALLY good. I think they're playing their hand perfectly. People just aren't patient enough to sit through an 85-win season.

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Re: "not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

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I don’t think they’re going to be really good in 2019 as is and I don’t know why I should either. Regardless there’s a certain silliness for lack of a better word wrt forgoing the present for what might be the future. Last year much of the fanbase felt it had its shortstop set with Diaz.

Ozuna, Nicasio and Reed would’ve also put the team in a better position this season without any real jeopardizing of the future.

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Re: "not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

Post by Fat Strat »

Socnorb11 wrote:I think some of you are going to be eating crow in 2019, when the team is REALLY good. I think they're playing their hand perfectly. People just aren't patient enough to sit through an 85-win season.
Our third 85'ish win season in a row. I think impatience is perfectly justified. When you're sitting in the 83-87 win territory, and we're probably at the higher end of that today, you don't really have to do all that much to push into the 90 win territory. Honestly, Addison Reed, as marginal an impact as he has on this club, pushes us from possibly in the playoffs to likely in the playoffs. 1-2 wins. Lance Lynn instead of Miles Mikolas probably pushes us another 1-2 wins, from likely in the playoffs to possibly challenging the Cubs for the division title. Those would have been simple, very doable signings (Lynn hasn't even signed yet... he might not even get Mikolas money at this point). There was obviously better talent out there, who signed for relatively reasonable deals.

None of those moves would have any real impact on 2019.

I also don't see where this incredible production is going to come from in 2019. Outside of Reyes, we don't have All-Star caliber talent hitting the major league roster next year. We're really stretching scouting reports if we think that Flaherty, Bader, O'Neil, Hudson, etc. are going to be impact players. Who on the current roster can take a real step forward? I'm not seeing it. Weaver, maybe, but on in terms of innings. Most likely, you'll see decline from AW, Molina, Fowler, Gregerson, and Carpenter due to age. DeJong, Pham, and Ozuna due to regression. Wong and Gyorkok aren't suddenly going to become MVP candidates. Wacha and Martinez are well proven commodities at this point, not likely to take a significant step up or back.

At the top of the farm, we have a lot of good talent and attractive talent because of their proximity to the majors, but Reyes is the only one who might be elite. And Reyes comes with a very high bust profile, imo.
Last edited by Fat Strat on January 13 18, 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

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I would've been fine with Reed. I don't think he's a huge difference-maker, though, to the point that anyone would say "well they clearly don't care about winning, because they didn't sign Reed". I think they have a plan, and I think it's a good one. I'm excited about still having all of the young kids in the system, and having exceptional financial flexibility for one of the best free agent classes in a long time next off-season.

Patience.
Last edited by Socnorb11 on January 13 18, 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

Post by Socnorb11 »

Fat Strat wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:I think some of you are going to be eating crow in 2019, when the team is REALLY good. I think they're playing their hand perfectly. People just aren't patient enough to sit through an 85-win season.
Our third 85'ish win season in a row. I think impatience is perfectly justified. When you're sitting in the 83-87 win territory, and we're probably at the higher end of that today, you don't really have to do all that much to push into the 90 win territory. Honestly, Addison Reed, as marginal an impact as he has on this club, pushes us from possibly in the playoffs to likely in the playoffs. 1-2 wins. Lance Lynn instead of Miles Mikolas probably pushes us another 1-2 wins, from likely in the playoffs to possibly challenging the Cubs for the division title. Those would have been simple, very doable signings (Lynn hasn't even signed yet... he might not even get Mikolas money at this point).

None of those moves have any real impact on 2019.

I also don't see where this incredible production is going to come from in 2019. Outside of Reyes, we don't have All-Star caliber talent hitting the major league roster next year. We're really stretching scouting reports if we think that Flaherty, Bader, O'Neil, Hudson, etc. are going to be impact players. We have a lot of good talent and attractive talent because of their proximity to the majors, but Reyes is the only one who might be elite. And Reyes comes with a very high bust profile, imo.

The $9 mil that you're giving Reed in 2019 might be the difference between being the highest bidder for Donaldson or not being the highest bidder for Donaldson. $9 mil isn't irrelevant.

I'm not sure how many "elite" players you need. How many do the Cubs have? Rizzo & Bryant? MAYBE Lester & Quintana? You don't need a full deck of elite players. You need a few, plus a bunch of very good players, and good depth. The Cards could easily muster that up for 2019.

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Re: "not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

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The $9 million for Reed absolutely wouldn’t be the difference between signing Donaldson or not and is disingenuous to present as such. Hell, they’ve cut payroll by $10 million. They’re also entering a new TV deal that will pay them 3-4 times more a year than what they had been getting and also just reaped $50 million for the BAMTech sale.

It’d be fine not to sign Reed if there was a better option on the roster, but there isn’t. Instead they’re ignoring an easily fixable hole on the roster for a team where every last win matters.

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Re: "not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

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Also, as already mentioned, we still have ALL of that young talent in the system. If they're right on the bubble in mid-2018, what's stopping them from tweaking the team to get over the top? See if the current bullpen arsenal is good enough........... or not. See if we need a bat mid-season. Let the current roster go out and play, see where you're at, and then strike where you need to.

Patience.

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Re: "not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

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Socnorb11 wrote:Also, as already mentioned, we still have ALL of that young talent in the system. If they're right on the bubble in mid-2018, what's stopping them from tweaking the team to get over the top? See if the current bullpen arsenal is good enough........... or not. See if we need a bat mid-season. Let the current roster go out and play, see where you're at, and then strike where you need to.

Patience.

But those games in April, May and June matter too. It’s like punting on second down.

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