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Re: Update: The Matt Holliday Off-Season Thread
Posted: December 11 09, 11:02 am
by Socnorb11
planet pujolsian wrote:I'm still confused as to why Bay needs to sign first. Doesn't the top player usually sign first which sets the market for everyone else? Is it strictly because of the Boras factor?
Basically, I think the Yankees and Red Sox set the market. It is presumed that either Bay or Holliday will sign with one of those teams, and that will set the precedent for the other one.
The Cardinals aren't going to set the market........ you can just about count on that.
Re: Update: The Matt Holliday Off-Season Thread
Posted: December 11 09, 11:12 am
by clevername
If Bay resigns with Boston, Holliday becomes much more available for the rest of us.
If Bay signs with someone else, Boras uses Boston to pump up the price.
If Boras waits he loses nothing as Holliday will pretty much sign for what we're offering him as it is if Bay goes back to Boston.
Re: Update: The Matt Holliday Off-Season Thread
Posted: December 11 09, 11:14 am
by TGantz
clevername wrote:If Bay resigns with Boston, Holliday becomes much more available for the rest of us.
If Bay signs with someone else, Boras uses Boston to pump up the price.
If Boras waits he loses nothing as Holliday will pretty much sign for what we're offering him as it is if Bay goes back to Boston.
I agree. We really need Boston to sign Bay if we have a chance. The Yankees don't really need Holliday enough to give him a ridiculous deal. Assuming Bay signs with Boston, the Angels apparently want nothing to do with Boras.
Re: Update: The Matt Holliday Off-Season Thread
Posted: December 11 09, 11:16 am
by BigDCardlvr
planet pujolsian wrote:I'm still confused as to why Bay needs to sign first. Doesn't the top player usually sign first which sets the market for everyone else? Is it strictly because of the Boras factor?
Really, it is the law of supply and demand. By waiting till Bay signs, Holliday becomes the last big name outfielder. Let the bidding begin
Re: Update: The Matt Holliday Off-Season Thread
Posted: December 11 09, 11:56 am
by Eephus Speed
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:If it's just money he wants, give him an 8/140 type deal. That's not insane.
And that might be what it takes to keep him from going to Boston or New York. I'd be OK with that, but I don't think the FO will go that high.
If Boston signs Holliday and Beltre, we need to sign Cameron or go the trade route. Byrd and DeRosa might be decent options, but I suspect the asking price will be much too high for what they offer. If we meet Bay's demands, I'll be really pissed. Of course, the problem with going the trade route is that we might not have what it takes to get an above average outfielder (or Halladay). Maybe we can steal DeJesus away from KC.
I'll say it again, signing Holliday makes life a lot easier.
Re: Update: The Matt Holliday Off-Season Thread
Posted: December 11 09, 12:06 pm
by Bo Hart
planet pujolsian wrote:I'm still confused as to why Bay needs to sign first. Doesn't the top player usually sign first which sets the market for everyone else? Is it strictly because of the Boras factor?
I personally think that Holliday's only other legitimate suitor aside from the Cardinals are the Red Sox. I realize other teams are expressing interest, but I don't think you'll see serious bidding out of any of them.
If the Red Sox sign Bay, that obviously takes them out of the running for Holliday. That would leave us.
Re: Update: The Matt Holliday Off-Season Thread
Posted: December 11 09, 12:09 pm
by Radio_Bugtussle
withAloe wrote:AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:If it's just money he wants, give him an 8/140 type deal. That's not insane.
And that might be what it takes to keep him from going to Boston or New York. I'd be OK with that, but I don't think the FO will go that high.
If Boston signs Holliday and Beltre, we need to sign Cameron or go the trade route. Byrd and DeRosa might be decent options, but I suspect the asking price will be much too high for what they offer. If we meet Bay's demands, I'll be really pissed. Of course, the problem with going the trade route is that we might not have what it takes to get an above average outfielder (or Halladay). Maybe we can steal DeJesus away from KC.
I'll say it again, signing Holliday makes life a lot easier.
Even though it's probably going to be a moot point, I'd sooner stick needles in my eyes than see Cameron in a Cardinal uniform. His best days are far behind him. Always struck me as an underachiever. Didn't like him even before he started the pathetic, bush league, untuck-the-shirt schtick in Milwaukee.
DDJ would be an interesting #4 OF/platoon OF option. Problem is, KC would want a couple set-up guys from the bullpen. That's too much of a price to pay in my book
Re: Update: The Matt Holliday Off-Season Thread
Posted: December 11 09, 12:23 pm
by picasso
From Bernie:
Mozeliak was on the Bernie show just now:
* He said the team has made a formal offer to Matt Holliday and expects to hear back within 48 hours.
* Though not committed to a hard timetable, Mozeliak suggested "the middle of next week" as the point where the Cardinals might have to move on.
"If we can't get something done, there's other ways to skin this one," Mozeliak said.
* Was bothered by Boras suggestion that Pujols may leave if they don't sign Holliday. Called it "unfair" and doesn't think Holliday is directly related to Pujols' thinking on staying or going.
* Indicated he was "disappointed" that the McGwire presser has taken so long to pull off. La Russa had suggested it was 'imminent' but Mozeliak seemed to back away from that.
Lots of good stuff....
I don't have time to recap it all right now.
-B
Re: Update: The Matt Holliday Off-Season Thread
Posted: December 11 09, 12:30 pm
by TGantz
I think that means that we're out on Holliday. No way Boras lets Holliday accept a low ball Cardinal offer before the Red Sox or Yankees have made any offer. Looks like Mo has some work to do.
Re: Update: The Matt Holliday Off-Season Thread
Posted: December 11 09, 12:33 pm
by Eephus Speed
Radio_Bugtussle wrote:Even though it's probably going to be a moot point, I'd sooner stick needles in my eyes than see Cameron in a Cardinal uniform. His best days are far behind him. Always struck me as an underachiever. Didn't like him even before he started the pathetic, bush league, untuck-the-shirt schtick in Milwaukee.
Cameron's still worth 3-4 wins. Like Beltre, he has more value than Bay.
But I don't suppose there's any way that I can talk you down from that ledge of irrationality.