Dexter Fowler

[Transmogrified Tiger]

1) That FA class won't look as impressive when it actually arrives
2) The Cardinals will have a new TV deal that gives them more revenue to work with
3) The Cardinals only have 55 million committed for 2019, adding a FA this year and/or next is not going to damage their ability to spend later
4) Forgoing a better team in 2017 for the possibility of something better in 2019 is thinking way too far in the future. For example, of the 13 players that make up the lineup and rotation(e.g. the majority of playing time), the 2014 Cardinals have 7 players in common with the 2016 Cardinals. And that's more stability than is normal! Too much will change between now and then.

[go birds]

1) That FA class won't look as impressive when it actually arrives
2) The Cardinals will have a new TV deal that gives them more revenue to work with
3) The Cardinals only have 55 million committed for 2019, adding a FA this year and/or next is not going to damage their ability to spend later
4) Forgoing a better team in 2017 for the possibility of something better in 2019 is thinking way too far in the future. For example, of the 13 players that make up the lineup and rotation(e.g. the majority of playing time), the 2014 Cardinals have 7 players in common with the 2016 Cardinals. And that's more stability than is normal! Too much will change between now and then.

1) that's probably true but its an unknown at this point--those potential FA's wanna get paid
2) irrelevant--everyone has or is getting a big money tv deal these days
3) this is the cardinals we are talking about--they arent throwing $20mil to a dexter fowler or turner type, nor should they and if they do, that's definitely going to affect their ability to spend later on
4) there arent any free agents in this class that move the needle much

of course im perennially pessimistic but after watching the team last year, im just not sold on guys like fowler and turner, at least not on those prices.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Well yes, if you think the 2016 payroll represents a ceiling that won't be exceeded for the next 5 years, then yes you should be very careful about what FAs the team spends on. We should also probably try to find MrCrowesGarden another hobby before he goes on a killing spree in that case too.

Also, the point is less about moving the needle than you don't know what 2019 will bring. Maybe Martinez's shoulder explodes in 2018 and Reyes never pans out and the team isn't looking likely to even make a wild card run in 2019. Maybe both turn into super-aces and Diaz and Piscotty get even better and they don't even need to spend big to be in 2019 contention. In the meantime you're holding one hand behind your back for a season you have much more knowledge about.

[Farewell Friends]

I question if Fowler, who has other offers and options, wants to play for Mike Matheny. So how much would the Cardinals be willing to overpay?

[Socnorb11]

I question if Fowler, who has other offers and options, wants to play for Mike Matheny. So how much would the Cardinals be willing to overpay?

Is he just making this up?

I mean, how would he know? I seriously doubt if Fowler has said as much.

[vinsanity]

3) this is the cardinals we are talking about--they arent throwing $20mil to a dexter fowler or turner type, nor should they and if they do, that's definitely going to affect their ability to spend later on
4) there arent any free agents in this class that move the needle much

of course im perennially pessimistic but after watching the team last year, im just not sold on guys like fowler and turner, at least not on those prices.

It costs $20MM now to get a 2-4 win type player. Next years class is about as good as this one, http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/2018/

Free Agents don't move the needle much any more. Last year was atypical with Heyward and Price. Free Agents fill holes and hopefully you can fill them with players at market price. Right now, the market for solid every day guys who don't move the needle, is around $20MM.

UZR loves Turner at 3B and with a GB staff, a defensive upgrade there could improve the results of a staff that saw just two starters perform with a half run of their FIP. Hey has shown 25 HR power and gets on-base a good clip. He's capable of being an AS 3B but he's not a franchise player. That costs $20MM now.

Fowler has suspect defense but a strong bat for a CFer and gets on-base well. He runs well and could solidify a lineup in a spot that doesn't generally provide great offense. For a team whose best CF defender last year was Kolten Wong's 62 innings, there doesn't seem to be a lot of risk. I'd rather have Fowler/Grichuk as my OF than Grichuk/Pham. Hell, the last two seasons Fowler had a higher fWAR than any everyday player for the 2016 redbirds.

$20MM isn't a franchise player any more. $30MM gets you an MVP candidate. $20MM gets you an ASG candidate. Turner and Fowler are that.

[Farewell Friends]

I question if Fowler, who has other offers and options, wants to play for Mike Matheny. So how much would the Cardinals be willing to overpay?

Is he just making this up?

I mean, how would he know? I seriously doubt if Fowler has said as much.

I don't know, but it's the second time this week someone has expressed doubt about Fowler wanting to play for Matheny. It's not like Bernie doesn't have connections.

[Socnorb11]

I question if Fowler, who has other offers and options, wants to play for Mike Matheny. So how much would the Cardinals be willing to overpay?

Is he just making this up?

I mean, how would he know? I seriously doubt if Fowler has said as much.

I don't know, but it's the second time this week someone has expressed doubt about Fowler wanting to play for Matheny. It's not like Bernie doesn't have connections.

Well sure. Once this stuff gets started, it's going to get repeated. That's how rumors work.

In this case, Bernie doesn't even say that sources told him this. He's just saying that he questions whether Fowler wants to play for Matheny. It gets people talking (like we are here), which is what Bernie is paid to do.

[MrCrowesGarden]

I question if Fowler, who has other offers and options, wants to play for Mike Matheny. So how much would the Cardinals be willing to overpay?

Is he just making this up?

I mean, how would he know? I seriously doubt if Fowler has said as much.

I don't know, but it's the second time this week someone has expressed doubt about Fowler wanting to play for Matheny. It's not like Bernie doesn't have connections.

Well sure. Once this stuff gets started, it's going to get repeated. That's how rumors work.

In this case, Bernie doesn't even say that sources told him this. He's just saying that he questions whether Fowler wants to play for Matheny. It gets people talking (like we are here), which is what Bernie is paid to do.

Are you suggesting Bernie pulled this out of thin air? I give him more credit than that.

[JL21]

Are you suggesting Bernie pulled this out of thin air? I give him more credit than that.

I do, too, but he also has a vested interest- clicks and the like- in exaggerating. And in this case, it certainly could be speculation.

In the very least, I'd take something like that with a huge grain of salt.