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Zomby Woof wrote:

skmsw wrote:

jagtrader wrote:

Magneto2.0 wrote:Then again, based off the last two days, those things can apparently get you Ace pitchers..

That's the thing. The market is greatly favoring buyers who are willing to take on salary. The Cardinals are in that boat. If they can't find an upgrade under these circumstances, they didn't do a very good job of finding a match.

ding ding ding ding

just like when we didnt fill our need in the pen a few years back... Mo did a lot of 'hindsighting' in that offseason.

That is not very fair. I remember a time when this board used to jump all over people when they would be critical of the GM over trades not being made because none of us know all the details going on.

Besides that year many message boards were jumping MO for not getting Will Ohman. Turns out in the winter time the media began to report why...Braves wanted Motte and then everyone was like oh okay that makes since why they didn't get him.

So I am not sure Mo was doing a lof "hindsighting" in that offseason, nor am I sure he will be doing it this off season as well.

Cook linked to Cardinals:

From DGoold: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... 78c22.html

The Cardinals appeared to have moved on to a second-tier of starting pitchers. Cleveland's Jake Westbrook remains a pitcher of interest to the Cardinals. Colorado's Aaron Cook has entered the picture as a possible fit, even though the sinkerballer is owed about $14.25 million on his contract, including a hefty salary/mutual option for 2011. Lefty Paul Maholm, reportedly a target of the pitching-hungry Los Angeles Dodgers, would also fit the profile, though there's been no confirmation of the Cardinals' interest.

The Cardinals are also in the market for a starting middle infielder. Stephen Drew has been linked to the team, though speaking in general terms this past week Mozeliak downplayed the team's chances of landing an infielder that would shift the depth chart beyond 2010. Drew, the Arizona starter, is arbitration-eligible this coming winter. Mozeliak did not dismiss the concept -- just talked about the difficulty of making that happen.

Ugh, I hope not on Aaron Cook, unless Duncan works his magic again.

His ERA is over 5 with a WHIP of 1.54, and he's been worse away from Coors (ERA of over 6, if I recall) than in Coors.

What is the guess on when we see Miller in majors? I assume next year he'll be in AA and 2o12 in AAA with maybe a September callup. Is that the general consensus?

I looked up Cook and really had no idea that he's been as good as he's been... disregarding this season. He would be the perfect guy to get since his salary is prohibitive for the Rockies, but fits just fine into Penny's slot for next season ($9.25 million). Mutual option for the '12 if he pans out, but a meaningless buy out if we want out of the contract.

Here's a guy that, not counting this season, has an era+ since 2005. While his era seems to have spiked this season, his FIP is exactly the same as last season and the same as its been in three of the last four seasons. Now, I'm not sure putting him behind our middle infield would help him much, but there's always that hope. He's also an extreme ground ball pitcher, so he fits the philosophy...

I see some dark sides here and some warning signs (check out his last two starts). His BB rate has increased; his velocity has decreased. He's 31 years old and might be heading downhill. There's no doubt, though, that he would fit in StL for the next two seasons and would be an upgrade right now over Supp or Hawk.

JoeMcKim wrote:What is the guess on when we see Miller in majors? I assume next year he'll be in AA and 2o12 in AAA with maybe a September callup. Is that the general consensus?

No.

2011 -- Palm Beach
2012 -- Springfield
2013 -- Memphis

I think he should be in PB now, but many others disagree.

Fat Strat wrote:

JoeMcKim wrote:What is the guess on when we see Miller in majors? I assume next year he'll be in AA and 2o12 in AAA with maybe a September callup. Is that the general consensus?

No.

2011 -- Palm Beach
2012 -- Springfield
2013 -- Memphis

I think he should be in PB now, but many others disagree.

I definitely disagree, but only because QC comes to my town in August for 4 games and I want to see him pitch.

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Fat Strat wrote:

JoeMcKim wrote:What is the guess on when we see Miller in majors? I assume next year he'll be in AA and 2o12 in AAA with maybe a September callup. Is that the general consensus?

No.

2011 -- Palm Beach
2012 -- Springfield
2013 -- Memphis

I think he should be in PB now, but many others disagree.

You think he'll need a full year at AAA?

So you're saying 2014 is the earliest we see him? I'd almost bet he's traded before then.

Magneto2.0 wrote:The thing is, I can't think of a pitcher available I'd trade Shelby for..

But this misses the general point.

Which is ... in a market where teams are looking to move pitchers in return for salary relief, you don't have to give up Miller to make a deal that helps.