Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

[Socnorb11]

I have no idea what Holliday wants. I have no idea if he'll return. I think the Cardinals should put together their best offer. If he turns it down, and he presumably will since he's a Boras guy, the team should forget about him. He's just a ballplayer. With all the economic hardship in this country, he's hardly worth the angst.

If Holliday leaves, it's a bad trade. Giving up Wallace for a two-month rental is a bad idea for a team like the Cardinals. They could have dealt Wallace for something that helped the team long-term. That said, Wallace is replaceable if you draft well.

I agree with your first paragraph. Wallace is just a ballplayer. There's no real sign YET that he'll be "special".

In regards to your second paragraph, the Cardinals should, theoretically, get long-term help from 2 draft picks that Holliday will bring. So it's not like the Cardinals gave up Wallace for JUST two months of Holliday.

[Eephus Speed]

If the Cardinals don't re-sign Holliday or lower payroll substantially, where are they going to spend all of that money?

In regards to your second paragraph, the Cardinals should, theoretically, get long-term help from 2 draft picks that Holliday will bring. So it's not like the Cardinals gave up Wallace for JUST two months of Holliday.

Just to play devil's advocate, will either of those draft picks have the upside of Wallace and how soon will they be Major League ready? Soon enough to keep Albert happy?

Of course, I'm not sure what Wallace's upside is. Can he become an adequate outfielder or is he, like Dunn, destined for 1B or DH?

[clevername]

I don't think not signing Holliday means a lower payroll necessarily. It may mean we have more money to spread around on other lower priced free agents.

[robbotis]

I don't think not signing Holliday means a lower payroll necessarily. It may mean we have more money to spread around on other lower priced free agents.

Option A:

Matt Holliday 6 yrs $100 million
David Freese at 3rd
John Smoltz at SP
Rick Ankiel as 4th OF

Option B:
Mark De Rosa 2 yrs $10 million at 3B/2B/OF
John Smoltz as SP
Billy Wagner 1 yr $5 million as RP
Jason Bay 5 yrs $75 million

[TheoSqua]

I don't think not signing Holliday means a lower payroll necessarily. It may mean we have more money to spread around on other lower priced free agents.

Option A:

Matt Holliday 6 yrs $100 million
David Freese at 3rd
John Smoltz at SP
Rick Ankiel as 4th OF

Option B:
Mark De Rosa 2 yrs $10 million at 3B/2B/OF
John Smoltz as SP
Billy Wagner 1 yr $5 million as RP
Jason Bay 5 yrs $75 million

I think Bay is going to cost more than 5/75. The 6/100 seems like Bay, Holliday would cost more like 7/126, and that's the "hometown discount" rate. Keep in mind the deal Boras is wanting to start with is Teixiera's 8/180 deal.

But, as examples, i'd take Option B over Option A any time.

[Eephus Speed]

I don't think not signing Holliday means a lower payroll necessarily. It may mean we have more money to spread around on other lower priced free agents.

I was asking where we might spend the money if we don't re-sign Holliday and payroll isn't lowered. I don't expect the payroll to be lowered, but I also don't want us giving a huge contract to ~average (or slightly above average) talent.

Option A:

Matt Holliday 6 yrs $100 million
David Freese at 3rd
John Smoltz at SP
Rick Ankiel as 4th OF

Option B:
Mark De Rosa 2 yrs $10 million at 3B/2B/OF
John Smoltz as SP
Billy Wagner 1 yr $5 million as RP
Jason Bay 5 yrs $75 million

I like Option A, except for the Ankiel part. And I wouldn't really have any issue with Holliday getting $126M over 7 years.

Bay's defense is such that I'd rather we didn't sign him. The same can be said for other big name free agent outfielders. Giving Cameron $15M over 2 years or DeRosa $10M over 2 years is more appealing to me.

[InvincibleCakeEater]

Yep. Bay is pretty easily going to be the most overpaid free agent of this year IMO. Well, maybe Pineiro. But who knows, maybe he did completely reinvent himself.

[number9]

Another expert "source" weighs in:

Source: Holliday Won’t Get More Then $105 Mill

[Radbird]

Another expert "source" weighs in:

Source: Holliday Won’t Get More Then $105 Mill

If this is true -

Demayo’s source went on to say that Holliday won’t get anywhere near $150 million dollars, as a matter of fact, he sees a 6 year $105 million dollar agreement as the max Boras could fetch for Holliday on the free agent market.

- then why would we not be a player?

[Leroy]

We're doomed.