Carpenter Signed through 2011, op. 2012 (Matthew Leach)

Secret Weapon · Post by **Secret Weapon** » December 4 06, 5:53 pm

Can anyone give me an example of when another pitcher's contract has been extended 2 years before the original deal was over?

Socnorb11 · Post by **Socnorb11** » December 4 06, 5:54 pm

Michael wrote:
ZigZagCardsFan wrote:What difference does it make if we get a similar deal next offseason? It's not like we're paying him more this year.
He could get injured.

If I told you we're saving say, 5m to do this deal now. As a GM would you wait? I would.

Or, he could run away with another Cy Young Award, the market could continue to rise, and $14 mil per year wouldn't touch him........

It's a risk/reward type of move. As mentioned earlier, that's the type of move that a small-market team has to make to remain competetive in the long-run.

arnie.k · Post by **arnie.k** » December 4 06, 5:55 pm

why are you all so business like about this? sure, it may not be the wisest "business" decision. but, there's a human aspect to all of this, and this club has shown over years that it appreciates loyalty. how can anyone be opposed to giving an extension to this guy?

Socnorb11 · Post by **Socnorb11** » December 4 06, 5:57 pm

Michael wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:One could make a pretty strong case that Carpenter is the best pitcher in the National League right now, and just led his team to a world championship. How can you think that $14 mil per year is not a "bargain" for the best pitcher in the league, considering what other players are getting??

Why wait until next off-season? Suppose Carpenter runs away with another Cy Young Award in 2007 (which isn't a far-fetched possibility)? You don't think at that point that his value would be even higher?

Furthermore, it sends a positive message that the Cardinal franchise will take care of their own. It's good PR, and that in itself could be worth several million dollars as the team goes shopping for free agents.
How much do you think the Cards saved by extending him now vs next off-season?

It depends what he does in 2007. If he has a monster year, then I think that they've probably saved a million bucks a year. If he has a so-so year, then they probably haven't saved anything.

It's not just about that, though. It's positive PR, which is always a good investment.

HugeCardfan · Post by **HugeCardfan** » December 4 06, 5:58 pm

Michael wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:One could make a pretty strong case that Carpenter is the best pitcher in the National League right now, and just led his team to a world championship. How can you think that $14 mil per year is not a "bargain" for the best pitcher in the league, considering what other players are getting??

Why wait until next off-season? Suppose Carpenter runs away with another Cy Young Award in 2007 (which isn't a far-fetched possibility)? You don't think at that point that his value would be even higher?

Furthermore, it sends a positive message that the Cardinal franchise will take care of their own. It's good PR, and that in itself could be worth several million dollars as the team goes shopping for free agents.
How much do you think the Cards saved by extending him now vs next off-season?

How sure can you be that he really would sign for the same amount next year?

Faceman · Post by **Faceman** » December 4 06, 5:58 pm

Michael wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:One could make a pretty strong case that Carpenter is the best pitcher in the National League right now, and just led his team to a world championship. How can you think that $14 mil per year is not a "bargain" for the best pitcher in the league, considering what other players are getting??

Why wait until next off-season? Suppose Carpenter runs away with another Cy Young Award in 2007 (which isn't a far-fetched possibility)? You don't think at that point that his value would be even higher?

Furthermore, it sends a positive message that the Cardinal franchise will take care of their own. It's good PR, and that in itself could be worth several million dollars as the team goes shopping for free agents.
How much do you think the Cards saved by extending him now vs next off-season?

Probably a couple million per year. Why do they have to wait a year to do the right thing?

Post by **Michael** » December 4 06, 5:59 pm

arnie.k wrote:why are you all so business like about this? sure, it may not be the wisest "business" decision. but, there's a human aspect to all of this, and this club has shown over years that it appreciates loyalty. how can anyone be opposed to giving an extension to this guy?

I love the Cardinals more than any one player. On the flip side haven't the Cardinals been very good and loyal to him? I'm still not sure it's a bad business decision, but it's certainly an interesting one. I have mixed feelings.

BTW I'm not slamming Carp here, I really do love the guy and I want to see him retire a Cardinal.

clevername · Post by **clevername** » December 4 06, 5:59 pm

whyhellothere wrote:
Faceman wrote:
why do you think that? Market prices go up every year, right? Look at the differences in pitching contracts, year over year. It's insane.

Additionally, you cannot throw $10MM+ at other, LESSER pitchers without paying Carp. This extention puts the timing of the contract where we need it. After Edmonds and Izzy's deals.
the market tends to level out for a couple years after an insane year. the same thing happened a few years ago, agents accused MLB of "collusion" but the reality is the market can't sustain insane contracts every year.

i think waiting another year to make sure health/performance held up would be less risky than worrying about a slight market increase (if at all)

I can remember everyone feeling the market last year was insane. I remember "$10 million a year for Burnett? Good grief?".

Now we have this year.

Who knows when this will level out.

We're still locking him up for what will likely end up being cheaper than what some poor team will pay Zito.

We're rewarding him for what he's done for the team/organization.

We're showing other players on the team and other players in the league what it's like to play in St. Louis if you're loyal to the team.

I think there's a whole lotta worryworts in here.

Post by **Michael** » December 4 06, 6:00 pm

HugeCardfan wrote:
Michael wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:One could make a pretty strong case that Carpenter is the best pitcher in the National League right now, and just led his team to a world championship. How can you think that $14 mil per year is not a "bargain" for the best pitcher in the league, considering what other players are getting??

Why wait until next off-season? Suppose Carpenter runs away with another Cy Young Award in 2007 (which isn't a far-fetched possibility)? You don't think at that point that his value would be even higher?

Furthermore, it sends a positive message that the Cardinal franchise will take care of their own. It's good PR, and that in itself could be worth several million dollars as the team goes shopping for free agents.
How much do you think the Cards saved by extending him now vs next off-season?
How sure can you be that he really would sign for the same amount next year?

I'm sure it would cost more but how much more.

BW23 · Post by **BW23** » December 4 06, 6:00 pm

whyhellothere wrote:
BW23 wrote: Not me.

Now was the time, IMO.
I'm curious why you think it was a better idea to extend him this offseason, rather than next. Personally, I can't really think of any reasons why this year is better than next year. It's not like we got a steal extending him a year earlier, he got about market price.

1) We have him locked up. There's no guarantee they would next year. Let's say he has (another) CY type season without being extended. Maybe he wants $20M/year to stay. Maybe he won't stay at all because they haven't rewarded him.

2) It sets up what they do this winter. I really doubt they would have signed anyone for more money he was making. I guess I could live with Carp, Reyes, Wainwright, Narveson and Wells, though....just as long as they dumped Rolen, Eckstein, Encarnacion and Edmonds for cheap players, too. (Okay, so I'm serious about Encarnacion.)

The salary of Carp may not have been a big deal to him if they offered someone a lot more than what he was making, but it could really backfire, too.

3) He earned it. Yes, he signed a contract. Both parties are living up to what was signed, too. What he's done the last three years is really unmatched, and he's grossly underpaid in this market. The longer you wait to extend him, the uglier it could get.

4) He needs more Marlboros.

5) I'm all about the finances of the game, and I'm not big on huge gambles, particularly if there's a health question involved. But he's the one guy that deserved this. The game is more about the numbers at times, and this, to me, is one of those times.

6) Pujols' and Rolen's contracts have been had fans moaning about the money. Now they're both bargains compared to the likes of Soriano and Lee and Matthews Jr. and Pierre.

7) Thank goodness this news didn't happen last winter with Mulder's name attached.