Oscar Taveras

[Slider]

I'm not a fan of letting the kids figure it out at the major league level. But then again if the level they are at isn't a challenge then yea move them up.

Fully agree...I am in the camp that Shelby has little to nothing left to figure out. I believe he can be a contributor now on our MLB roster and be just as good if not better than Boggs/Salas.

Strat...this is my problem...the kid has no reason to be at the level he is at right now, he should have already been in PB, gotten his AB's, go to AFL and if he hits there he should be ready to start in AA next year. Instead it MIGHT not reach AA until the 2nd half of the season. Again another example is Adams, the only reason he is not in AAA right now is because of Hamiliton. I am sorry but Hamiltion is not a MLB contributor...drop the guy, put him on the bench do whatever you have to in order to move Adams up, instead he just continues to hit guys in AA that have no chance against him.

[Fat Strat]

FWIW, I too am sick of the Cardinals babying their minor leagues ala Rasmus in 2008. Though...they really haven't had someone to baby since then.

I've never understood this sentiment at all. What did Rasmus do in '08 that proves he SHOULD have been brought to the majors? All he did was sulk and suck. Then, when he did get his chance in '09, he sucked. Defense was there, but Rasmus was an 89 ops+ player that year (714 ops). If anything, Rasmus' history since '08 shows that the Cards took the right promotion track with him, despite him believing he was ready.

Strat...this is my problem...the kid has no reason to be at the level he is at right now, he should have already been in PB, gotten his AB's, go to AFL and if he hits there he should be ready to start in AA next year. Instead it MIGHT not reach AA until the 2nd half of the season.

This makes no sense. Taveras has 329 pa's at QC. That's just over a half season -- remember he was injured for quite a while. He's 19 years old and sure looks like he's on pace to be in AA as a 20 year old (2nd half of '12) with all of 800 professional pa's. How in the world could that be construed as anything except an aggressive promotion strategy?

You want him to be promoted like Trout? Alright. Trout had over 800 pa's at the A or lower level. Give Taveras 200 pa's at Palm Beach (a half season) next year and he'll be exactly on Trout's pace.


And as far as Adams goes, don't get caught up into promotions to AAA just because it's a higher league. It's not necessarily a better league. There are a lot of guys who skip AAA altogether. Adams won't be one because we don't have anywhere to put him at the MLB level and he's not versatile enough to consider for a bench role, but he's certainly not being held back by Hamilton or by him not seeing AAA pitching this year.

[themiddle54]

Why would you want him to skip A+ ball?

I believe he's a monster hitter with nothing to learn there.

[go birds]

I think people in the organization also may still be having night terrors involving rick ankiel

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

FWIW, I too am sick of the Cardinals babying their minor leagues ala Rasmus in 2008. Though...they really haven't had someone to baby since then.

I've never understood this sentiment at all. What did Rasmus do in '08 that proves he SHOULD have been brought to the majors? All he did was sulk and suck.

If I remember correctly it was his ST performance that warranted him to break with the big league club, not his ensuing mental collapse

[Fat Strat]

FWIW, I too am sick of the Cardinals babying their minor leagues ala Rasmus in 2008. Though...they really haven't had someone to baby since then.

I've never understood this sentiment at all. What did Rasmus do in '08 that proves he SHOULD have been brought to the majors? All he did was sulk and suck.

If I remember correctly it was his ST performance that warranted him to break with the big league club, not his ensuing mental collapse

Exactly. People make a big deal out of that ST performance -- maybe 100 pa's against ST competition. To people who make this argument (that the Cards mismanaged Rasmus) those ST PA's prove that the organization's strategy toward Rasmus was wrong and they ignore the 1000+ pa's that happened in the two years after that ST, which almost inarguably prove that the organization's strategy was right.

[Slider]

I believe Rasmus is not mentally tough...but I also believe the Cards did him no favors. He was ready for the pro's and didn't make it...then when he does he is a part time player for the crappy verteran Ankiel/Duncan...Manager treats him like a baby and constantly belittling the guy in the media...coupled with him constantly being called "Luhnhows boy"...He didnt' have chance here.

I am glad he got traded, hated the return though...I am in part glad he got traded so that he might be able to fully reach his potential and his situation in the STL was toxic.

As with Oscar, I am willing to go out on a limb and say this...that as long as TLR is around the kid won't see the majors with any significant role (at least a bench player) before 24-25 years old (assuming he continues to develop as he is already). Let's just hope TLR is not around that long to see if I am right.

On paper if Oscar continues to develop his ETA would be 21...I just don't see it happening though.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

I don't understand what you're saying. They were proven correct because he struggled to adjust to mlb pitching his first year while still providing ~3WAR despite an 89 OPS+? He's consistently been a pretty good player. If your argument is that Ankiel, Ludwick and Skip were the best outfielders in 2008, okay, I can somewhat see that. But, Skippy provided ~2 WAR in 2008... Rasmus provided ~3 in 2009 despite a bad bat. Overall, he's posted a 108 OPS+. Is your argument that the mlb club was better off without Rasmus in 2008? That they handled him properly (which surely we can all agree they didn't as he's not even with the club anymore due to the way he was handled)?

[Swirls]

Is Shane victorino a good projected comparison?

Definitely not.

What you would be looking for in a comp is a guy who fell under the radar some, but has an exceptionally quick bat, a line drive hitter who hits a ton of doubles (some of which leave the park), who makes great contact, but has very good patience. This would be a guy who projects as a high average hitter, high on base percentage, with power to all fields, great plate coverage and unusual strength. Probably someone who will move quickly and challenge the organization to play him and promote him despite his age.

If only I could think of someone in recent Cardinals history who fit that profile to compare him to...

I actually think a really good comparison to him would be a young Matt Holliday, although Oscar will/should arrive at the majors much quicker than Matt did.

[Fat Strat]

Is Shane victorino a good projected comparison?

Definitely not.

What you would be looking for in a comp is a guy who fell under the radar some, but has an exceptionally quick bat, a line drive hitter who hits a ton of doubles (some of which leave the park), who makes great contact, but has very good patience. This would be a guy who projects as a high average hitter, high on base percentage, with power to all fields, great plate coverage and unusual strength. Probably someone who will move quickly and challenge the organization to play him and promote him despite his age.

If only I could think of someone in recent Cardinals history who fit that profile to compare him to...

I actually think a really good comparison to him would be a young Matt Holliday, although Oscar will/should arrive at the majors much quicker than Matt did.

I agree from a major league production perspective, but Holliday's minor league career is extremely unimpressive. If I gave you Matt Holliday's minor league numbers you would say that he had little chance of being a productive major league hitter.