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Scoring Dilema - from Goold's Birdland
Posted: March 15 07, 7:12 pm
by GeddyWrox
A scoring dilemma arose in Springer’s inning Thursday. With a runner at first base, Dodgers’ rookie Andy LaRoche tagged a liner to second baseman Edgar Gonzalez. The runner strayed from first as Gonzalez caught the dart. An easy double play was being offered until Gonzalez bounced the throw aggressively to first base. That allowed the runner to advance to second base.
It was ruled an error, naturally.
The run came around to score and here was the scoring quandary. Is the run earned? One school of thought is that the run is earned because a single and double followed the lineout and therefore the runner would have scored from first regardless of the the throw. A competing school suggests that the runner never should have been given the chance to advance at all — he was toast at first base with a good throw.
That would make it an unearned run because the runner, in effect, was out on the double-play liner.
Thoughts?
You can't assume the double play, right? So there shouldn't have been an error and the run should be earned...
Or does that "can't assume a double play" only come into play on a ground ball double force play (like your standard 6-4-3)?
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Posted: March 15 07, 7:14 pm
by stretch
There has to be an error because the runner advanced a base.
I would tend to be on the side of an unearned run.
Posted: March 15 07, 7:17 pm
by GeddyWrox
stretch wrote:There has to be an error because the runner advanced a base.
Ah. Yep. Shoulda realized that.
I agree with you then... should be unearned.
Posted: March 15 07, 7:22 pm
by stretch
But what if he didn't advance when the first baseman knocked down a wild throw where the runner would have been an out by 10 feet?
Could that be considered an error. Part of me would say yes, this is the big leagues, but I suppose it wouldn't be an error.
Posted: March 15 07, 8:01 pm
by TAZ
pujolswrox wrote:stretch wrote:There has to be an error because the runner advanced a base.
Ah. Yep. Shoulda realized that.
I agree with you then... should be unearned.
This is an error and an unearned run. The pitcher did his job by getting the "tailor-made" double-play and that's a play you expect a high school 2B to make. If it was the same hit only on the left side that's not an expected double-play, and if the runner advances then it's an error. But because of the following hits it would be an EARNED run.
Not sure what the rulebook states, but those are my thoughts.
Posted: March 15 07, 8:46 pm
by s.f.
Rule 10.14(c) says:
No error shall be charged against any fielder when he makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base he would have reached had the throw not been wild.
The rule does not differentiate between conventional groundball double plays and line-drive double plays.
In this case, the error is not charged because of the failure to get the runner out, but is charged because it allowed the advance of the runner. In reconstructing the inning, the runner would have scored even if he had not advanced on the error, so the run is earned.
Re: Scoring Dilema - from Goold's Birdland
Posted: March 15 07, 8:56 pm
by JohnnyJay
pujolswrox wrote:A scoring dilemma arose in Springer’s inning Thursday. With a runner at first base, Dodgers’ rookie Andy LaRoche tagged a liner to second baseman Edgar Gonzalez. The runner strayed from first as Gonzalez caught the dart. An easy double play was being offered until Gonzalez bounced the throw aggressively to first base. That allowed the runner to advance to second base.
It was ruled an error, naturally.
The run came around to score and here was the scoring quandary. Is the run earned? One school of thought is that the run is earned because a single and double followed the lineout and therefore the runner would have scored from first regardless of the the throw. A competing school suggests that the runner never should have been given the chance to advance at all — he was toast at first base with a good throw.
That would make it an unearned run because the runner, in effect, was out on the double-play liner.
Thoughts?
You can't assume the double play, right? So there shouldn't have been an error and the run should be earned...
Or does that "can't assume a double play" only come into play on a ground ball double force play (like your standard 6-4-3)?
LinkLinkLinkLinkLink
Edit: Deleting a worthless post by me in this thread.
Posted: March 15 07, 9:03 pm
by Michael
s.f. wrote:Rule 10.14(c) says:
No error shall be charged against any fielder when he makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base he would have reached had the throw not been wild.
The rule does not differentiate between conventional groundball double plays and line-drive double plays.
In this case, the error is not charged because of the failure to get the runner out, but is charged because it allowed the advance of the runner. In reconstructing the inning, the runner would have scored even if he had not advanced on the error, so the run is earned.
Welcome!
Nice first post!
Posted: March 15 07, 9:17 pm
by s.f.
Thanks.
And for the record, the box score shows that Springer was indeed charged with an earned run.