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Mary1966 wrote:He made three errors at third base, three at shortstop, one at second and one at first.

jagtrader wrote:Was it Baseball Prospectus that ripped Jocketty for trading Luna? Will there be a retraction?

Sometimes a player can't be completely analyzed through numbers.

BP wrote:For all the attention paid to the Abreu deal, I'm not convinced it was the most interesting one made on Sunday. It's been about 12 hours since it crossed by inbox, and I still can't make sense of the Cardinals' decision to trade away Hector Luna for Ronnie Belliard. They got the older, more expensive player, which is par for the course iin late July, but I think they also got the lesser one.

Luna vs. Belliard, 2005 and 2006:

Code: Select all

2005
             AVG   OBP   SLG    EqA    BB   SO   SB  CS   FRAA (2B)
Luna        .285  .344  .409   .272     9   25   10   2      0
Belliard    .284  .325  .450   .276    35   72    2   2     +6

2006
             AVG   OBP   SLG    EqA    BB   SO   SB  CS   FRAA (2B)
Luna        .291  .355  .417   .267    21   34    5   3     -6
Belliard    .289  .335  .419   .268    21   44    2   0     -3

Luna is 26, Belliard is 31. Luna is athletic and has a good bit of speed. Belliard has lost almost all of his speed, and his body--face it, he looks like Lenny Harris.

Belliard has edges in virtually all counting stats the past two seasons because he's played more than Luna. The Cardinal was a utilityman last year and early this year before playing his way into a big share of the second-base job. When you look at their rate performance, you see that Luna's basically matched him at-bat for at-bat, and Belliard has rated a small edge with the glove, according to Clay Davenport's system.

If the Cardinals are hoping to bat Belliard second, they're in for some problems. He's a slow right-handed hitter who puts the ball on the ground and doesn't draw walks. (Belliard's good batting averages the past two seasons have served to hide the fact that he's just stopped walking: once every 17 PAs or so, about half his career rate entering 2005.) That's a recipe for double plays, not to mention the problems created by using three straight right-handed batters at the top of the lineup, four if Scott Rolen remains in the cleanup spot.

At the very least, the Cardinals have merely shuffled deck chairs, acquiring a veteran in exchange for a comparably-valued, less-experienced player. It's likely that the difference between the two won't even be a win over the last 60 games of the season. That wouldn't make it a good trade for the Cards--they lose out on Luna's peak seasons at low cost--but it would mean they didn't actively hurt themselves. On the other hand, Luna is trending upward, while Belliard seems to be treading water or sliding back. I've been advocating for Luna most of this year, and I won't stop now; he's going to outplay Belliard over the next two months, take hold of the second-base job in Cleveland and be one of the best 2Bs in the AL in 2007. If Jose Lopez and his .317 OBP can be an All-Star, Luna certainly can make next year's team.

ghostrunner wrote:I've seen Luna make some damn fine defensive plays. I think he had both a terrible throw into the stands that bizarrely ended up saving a run on the next play (i can't remember how it worked, but I remember figuring this out), and a ridiculously good throw from third to first back in the 2005 postseason.

People sure like to focus on Belliard's build, but I don't recall ever thinking a skinnier guy would have done better on any specific plays. I remember someone referred to his "fat-leticism" around the time of the trade, which I thought was apt.

Cronos69 wrote:That Mike Tyson has so many quotable lines I don't know where to start.

Oh wait, yes I do.

"I want your heart! I want to eat his children! Praise be to our LAWD!!"

Kyle wrote:

Cronos69 wrote:That Mike Tyson has so many quotable lines I don't know where to start.

Oh wait, yes I do.

"I want your heart! I want to eat his children! Praise be to our LAWD!!"

I'm guessing this is supposed to be in that "awkward interview" topic?