GatewayRedbirds.com

Is where I leave some of you guys. Not trying to one-up anyone, but because of longevity alone (yes, I'm an old fart) I've played in/coached/scouted/etc., I'm pretty sure, more games than 95%+ of the posters here. Given, that fact alone doesn't make me smarter than the next guy.

Don't ask me to quantify clutch as a statistic...as a matter of fact, that is an entirely different philosophical discussion. Just because something can't be quantified, doesn't mean something doesn't exist. But CLUTCH is an attribute that some players have, and some do not. Shoot the message. Shoot the messenger. I could care less, because I believe it as much as I know the sun will rise in the east tomorrow.

I have seen players who--when put in a game situation--you couldn't pull a pin out of their a** with a tractor. Others revel in it...they want to be in the batter's box with the game on the line. I've had conversations with these guys over the years, and their thought process is fascinating. Normally, they would go to the plate wanting to get a hit. In a clutch situation--and I don't want to over-generalize--their thinking changes. Instead of wanting to get a hit, many tell me they think past "wanting to get a hit"...they think IN WHAT MANNER they are going to hit the ball. They are honestly shocked when they fail...they aren't down on themselves, they just express disbelief. Nervous about getting a hit? Not these guys...they talk about what part of the ball they want to hit, and where they are going to hit it. The game truly slows down for this select group of players. I think that is why they are shocked when they fail...the game has slowed, and it slows to the point where the task of getting a hit seems "easy", and when they fail, its almost unbeleiveable to them.

Its real, its palpable, and its not just a function of talent. There are things that we are not intelligent enought to explain about ourselves, and this may be one of them. I just know, in my heart, there is a group of players that have been "different" for me down through the years, and these guys are clutch.

Laying it on the table for discussion.

14

If I recall correctly, didn't Ken Boyer get the winning hit in the last game of the 1964 regular season, a double in maybe the 6th inning, then the grand salami in game 4 of the World Series? Other clutch Cardinals would include Willie McGee and Scott Spiezio.

i dont really believe in a person performing better in the clutch (accepting this also makes you accept that they dont care when it isnt "clutch"). I do believe there's a such thing as cracking under pressure. So I guess a "clutch" player is one who plays to his abilities at all times, not really "performing better in the clutch"

I'd always felt like the bigger the situation, the more I was able to focus at the plate. I never played professional baseball and you've (Mr. Boyer) seen and been around a lot more baseball than I have, but looking back on it, I was actually pretty pumped for every AB regardless and I'm not sure there was a real difference in being "locked in" for any particular situation. I was at my happiest hitting a baseball, and BP obviously didn't really fill the void the way an AB that would be recorded and matter did. I'm kind of an adrenaline-junky in the rest of my life as well; e.g., I'll write a better paper by waiting until the night before it's due. I don't know that I ever put a better swing on a fastball though, than I did in other situations because of the situation itself, even though I remember a few clutch instances from my past. Maybe I wasn't clutch.

I think that the mental aspect is incredibly important in baseball, but once you are talking about the best players in the world that most of those guys have achieved that next-level of consciousness already and the gap is too small to be measured (not according to Tom Tippett maybe, but I'd have to refresh my memory on that one) or to have much effect anyway. And frankly, if it can't be measured, I'm not going to take on blind faith that it affects the day-to-day of Major League Baseball just because it sounds romantic.

I think that clutch events happen all the time obviously, and especially at lower levels that anti-clutch is a very real thing. I have a hard time thinking that some guys can flip the switch only in "close and late" situations or whatever. If I had that switch, it would be flipped on and duct taped to the wall.

For me, every actual AB I got, and even playing on 4-5 teams some years, there really weren't that many that I was ever ho-hum about, considering that I was facing that guy 60 feet in front of me that was trying to strike me out, and it was basically my favorite thing to do. I wouldn't allow myself to take a different approach or to have a different mentality for some AB because they were all so important to me. If I'm able to slow things down, recognize spin and hit the part of the ball that I want to hit, I'm doing that every time.

I really did love being up there when I could win the game with one swing, and I never thought I was going to make an out regardless of the situation. That's just my take though, I can't speak to anyone's personal psychology other than my own.

Meh, I'm just not big on the whole clutch thing.

I understand adrenaline rushes and how you can feel invincible, but there just seem to be so many factors that can contribute to a game-winning hit or basket or touchdown pass.

Well, it's a matter of control. Bouton and others have written about how baseball is the one sport where you *can't* let the adrenaline take over; that it's important *not* to get too pumped up. And in fact, we see that all the time, guys who swing too hard (and miss) or guys on the mound who throw it as hard as they can and either miss the plate by a mile or groove it right down the middle (and get slammed).

Or, as Yogi Berra used to say, "90% of baseball is half mental."

SPIEZIEO==TEH CLUTCH

Jmodene wrote:Well, it's a matter of control. Bouton and others have written about how baseball is the one sport where you *can't* let the adrenaline take over; that it's important *not* to get too pumped up. And in fact, we see that all the time, guys who swing too hard (and miss) or guys on the mound who throw it as hard as they can and either miss the plate by a mile or groove it right down the middle (and get slammed).

Well, I'm not talking about the physical aspect. I'm talking about higher-leverage creating hyper-focus. Maybe it was just my ADD, and I'm definitely not trying to speak for others. I always like to hear different personal takes, especially if we are going to discuss this is in a more abstract way, which is how I interpreted the original post.

It's kind of a given that you can't flail the bat like a maniac just because it's an exciting part of the game.

Or, as Yogi Berra used to say, "90% of baseball is half mental."

God love him.

If it didn't exist, I wouldn't be that interested in watching sports. For me, that's pretty close to the entire thrill I get out of watching athletes perform.

To some extent, I've often considered myself a clutch performer. Take me out on a practice round of golf and I'll rarely be really sharp. But come tournament time, for whatever reason, I always played my best. Especially when I "chopped" the day before and went into the round a little uneasy about my chances. The same held true, to varying extents, with baseball and basketball.

So having recognized a level of clutch play in myself, how could I possibly think that it doesn't exist on professional levels? I was a professional golfer for a few years and I know that it exists, possibly to a greater extent in that sport. But what could reasonably convince someone that it doesn't (and I suppose never will) exist in baseball.

The study that I've seen has a number of questionable presuppositions. It's been years since I looked at it so correct me if I'm wrong but their definition of a clutch situation, as far as I was concerned, was a bit troubling. I believe it was something like 7th inning or after, game within a couple runs, etc. One only needs to imagine quickly to realize that a leadoff hitter in the top of the seventh, with his team leading 4-2, is not really a situation that one would consider to be high-pressure. And it goes without saying that innings 1 through 6 could provide a situation that demanded clutch play.

Finally, the assumption that a .295 hitter that hits .295 in the above defined situations could not be considered "clutch" because that's what he always hits. This assumes that a .295 hitter always hits like a .295 hitter. Not a series of cycles ranging on each side of .295. Obviously two .295 hitters could provide completely different results for his team. One consistently driving in runs, the other, mainly gathering his hits in situations that have very little impact on the game. And if certain players are known to wilt in pressure situations, maintaining that ability to perform at the top of his game, I would argue, is clutch.

Perhaps someone could devise a statistic that could adjust for pressure situations. League average in this situation is .235, so a .295 hitter is certainly considered clutch, in comparison to what is typical. That's what I consider clutch anyway. The guy gets it done when his team needs him to. Not, that he performs way up and beyond his typical ability during those clutch situations.

Don't let anyone fool you. There are, and always have been clutch hitters. And that's part of the reason I'm still such a fan of the good old RBI. The entire purpose on offense is to score runs and to do that you need guys to drive runs in. Look up Tony Perez' RBI totals, year after year. It didn't matter what team he was on (Reds, Expos, Red Sox) he almost always led his team in RBIs and almost always had around 100+. Luck? Players around him? To some extent but you're rising to the occasion when year after year you have only 145 hits and over 100 RBIs. He was clutch.

Mephistopheles wrote:I guess a "clutch" player is one who plays to his abilities at all times, not really "performing better in the clutch"

Agreed.

Unless somebody can find me a guy who hits .250 in low pressure situations but .350 in close and late.

And don't go digging up some guy with 50 ABs.