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So Ironic that we, so proud of our guerilla-based independence struggle, forget the lesson of trying to subjugate a people from far away using mercenaries.

Look - they are defending their home and their traditions. Half of the too-small force we projected over there are civilian mercenaries in it for one thing only - blood money.

I don't care what you or I think of their culture -they've got the moral high ground in terms of the will to fight. Who is going to win? if you need a refresher - rent Godfather II and pay close attention to Michael's light coming on in Cuba.

We are sending money and men down a toilet bowl in Iraq all in the name of defending the ability of a small group of neoconservative elites to plunder two countries (America and Iraq) wealth for their own.

Wake up fools - if you aren't in Bush's 'Have-More's' you aren't getting anything out of this war other than a swift kick in the ass. We get to deal with our returning maimed love one's in a health system that doesn't give a **** about our well being, we get the higher gas prices, the higher health care bill, the higher taxes, the higher everything. All for what? Where's Bin Laden? About as contained as the mortgage mess.

I admire your patriotism. But patriotism at the cost of your long term well being is 1984-foolish. You're being used. Wake up.

Wake up fools - if you aren't in Bush's 'Have-More's' you aren't getting anything out of this war other than a swift kick in the ass.

To harsh to put in the thread you were responding to?

EDIT: Alright, time-stamps tell me that you posted this just before SS's post on supporting the war. My apologies.

I think this kind of dialect is counter to an intelligent, civil disagreement. Calling people fools, and to "wake up", is not a good plan in my opinion.

I'll offer a response. Because I feel your anger and think it's valid. A lot of young American men and women are now dead - more than were killed on September 11th. A lot more Iraqi men and women, many civilians, are also dead.

I don't know necessarily whether there was duplicity leading up to this war; I'm not sure we were lied to, or intentionally deceived. We were certainly told many justifications for entering Iraq, which proved to be false or incorrect. I can't fault the American people for trusting or wanting to trust what we were told by our government. (Congress did as well, in voting to authorize Bush to enter into the war). After all of the cynicism and distrust for our government in the 30 years following Vietnam and Watergate, it's actually a positive sign that our people are still capable of trusting our elected goverment. It's enduring shame that this trust was misplaced.

Now, here we are. 4 years later. Many objectives yet to be accomplished, perhaps many unaccomplishable. The question that I'm waiting to hear answered is, what do we do now. try to ignore the misinformation and potential duplicity that got us into the war. Try to ignore the blood that has been shed. What do we do now that results in a workably stable Iraqi government?

Republicans maintain, "stay the course." I don't believe the course is working. The course could last indefinitely, and cost indefinitely in dollars and lives. The present course has not resulted in a stable autonomous Iraq; it has resulted in a terrorist breeding ground, like a swamp for malaria to fester and flourish.

Democrats maintain, "troop redeployment." Bring our boys and gals home now, and make the Iraqi gov't, police, and fledgling infrastructure stand on its own. Those institutions are not yet strong, and this plan is likely to result in full scale collapse and civil war, destabilizing the nation and the region. I don't find this to be a viable outcome either.

If any candidate comes forward with a new idea, I want to hear it. I'm cautiously, reluctantly optimistic that this could happen. Maybe.

jim wrote:I think this kind of dialect is counter to an intelligent, civil disagreement. Calling people fools, and to "wake up", is not a good plan in my opinion.

Sometimes I have to be harsh with the kids to get their attention.

Again, seems a bit Stltoday Current Affairs-esque.



Hey sigh, whatcha gonna call me now?

haltz wrote:

Wake up fools - if you aren't in Bush's 'Have-More's' you aren't getting anything out of this war other than a swift kick in the ass.

To harsh to put in the thread you were responding to?

I can see where you are coming from. But if I put it in the other Iraq thread, the message would have been lost. it is vitally important that people begin to understand how much they have been manipulated.

Joe Shlabotnik wrote:

jim wrote:I think this kind of dialect is counter to an intelligent, civil disagreement. Calling people fools, and to "wake up", is not a good plan in my opinion.

Sometimes I have to be harsh with the kids to get their attention.

You can keep that strategy up, and I see that you still are, but it's not going to be productive in my opinion.

jim wrote:

Joe Shlabotnik wrote:

jim wrote:I think this kind of dialect is counter to an intelligent, civil disagreement. Calling people fools, and to "wake up", is not a good plan in my opinion.

Sometimes I have to be harsh with the kids to get their attention.

You can keep that strategy up, and I see that you still are, but it's not going to be productive in my opinion.

Agreed.


This is more of a rant.

i really dont like how people think allied troops are going to outlast the insurgents/terrorists/etc....these people have been fighting for centuries...and this is on there land...they will wait us out...