Page 1 of 3
Rant: Mangling city names
Posted: July 30 08, 8:54 pm
by jim
I don't understand why the names of foreign cities that don't have literal translations change. For example, when I was in Europe I was reading about the Pekin olympics (accent on the e). Pekin? When I asked about it, one local told me he never heard of Beijing until recently.
So I don't get why we don't call it Pekin, or why don't Europeans call it Beijing?
Why is Firenze Florence? Firenze is not difficult to pronounce. Milano is what Italians call Milan, why do we chop the "o" off? I understand Nueva York becaue "New" translates, but why is Roma Rome?
Really it makes no sense, and all it does is confuse you when you are in that country and trying to get on the right train.
I don't get it.
Re: Rant: Mangling city names
Posted: July 30 08, 9:06 pm
by Hungary Jack
Bu-da-pesht.
Re: Rant: Mangling city names
Posted: July 30 08, 9:10 pm
by ghostrunner
I thought the same thing over there. I imagine we can blame it on some Englishman way back.
Though looking it up, here's what I find on Wikipedia about Florence:
Florence was founded in 59 BCE as a settlement for former soldiers and was named Florentia, allotted by Julius Caesar to his veterans in the rich farming valley of the Arno.
So maybe Firenze is derived from or some kind of colloquialism for Florentia. Or is it "Firentia?"
Here's an entry on Germany:
The name Germany and the other similar-sounding names above are derived from the Latin Germania, of the 3rd century BC, a word of uncertain origin. The name appears to be a Gaulish term, and there is no evidence that it was ever used by the Germanic tribes themselves. Julius Caesar was the first to use Germanus in writing when describing tribes in north-eastern Gaul in his Commentarii de Bello Gallico; he records that four northern Belgic tribes, namely, the Condrusi, Eburones, Caeraesi and Paemani, were collectively known as Germani. In 98, Tacitus wrote Germania (the Latin title was actually: De Origine et situ Germanorum), an ethnographic work on the diverse set of Germanic tribes outside the Roman Empire. Unlike Caesar, Tacitus claims that the name Germani was first applied to the Tungri tribe. The Tungri name is thought to the endonym of the exonym Eburones.
Re: Rant: Mangling city names
Posted: July 31 08, 9:40 am
by maddash
Map makers.
And isn't Peking (with a G) the much more common alternate?
Re: Rant: Mangling city names
Posted: July 31 08, 10:28 am
by jim
maddash wrote:Map makers.
And isn't Peking (with a G) the much more common alternate?
En France et Suisse, c'est Pékin - c'nest pas Pékin
G
Speaking of mangling names, how about Switzerland? Native Swiss, citizens and lifelong residents, will call their own country one of four names:
Suisse (French)
Schweiz (German)
Svizzera (Italian)
Svizra (Romash)
Those are the four official languages of Switzerland, and how each pronounces their homeland. Weird. You would think if any place could settle on one name it would be Switzerland. I mean Suisse. Schweiz...
Re: Rant: Mangling city names
Posted: July 31 08, 11:02 am
by paskal
China itself is the one that changed its English name, although the actual name of the city has not actually changed (in Chinese). It's just that with the official pinyin method of translating Chinese words, the old spelling of Peking became Beijing. It's the Euros that are behind the times, not us.
Re: Rant: Mangling city names
Posted: July 31 08, 11:43 am
by maddash
paskal wrote:It's just that with the official pinyin method of translating Chinese words, the old spelling of Peking became Beijing.
This is true. Even if it makes more sense to name cities/countries by their native language spelling, you'd still have to translate many of them into the Latin alphabet. Spelling Beijing as 北京 just wouldn't work for the much of the world. Same goes with Arabic, Hindi, etc...
Re: Rant: Mangling city names
Posted: July 31 08, 12:54 pm
by Bama_Card_Fan
Maybe a little bit of a different subject here, but I hate listening to the national media people trying to pronounce "Louisville" (in Kentucky) the way the locals do. (I lived across the river from Louisville, and then in 2 different palces in Kentucky from Kindergarten through the 11th grade, so it always got on my nerves.) They all used to say, "Louie-ville" then some time back they started trying to pronounce it the way the locals do. I've heard some say something like, "Lou-ville" or something similar. First, you have to understand that in the South, the "-ville" part of a town name is almost always pronounced "vuhl," not "vill." Next, you have to pronounce the "Louis-" part of the name almost as one syllable, but not quite two: something like "Lu-a," but sort of run the u and a sounds together: "Luavuhl" it's simple.
Re: Rant: Mangling city names
Posted: July 31 08, 1:00 pm
by Arthur Dent
I understand changing the spelling (obviously for different character sets) and slight alterations to pronunciations to fit other languages, but I don't get the wholesale alterations:
Japan - Nippon
Germany - Deutschland
Hungary - Magyar
Re: Rant: Mangling city names
Posted: July 31 08, 1:03 pm
by Popeye_Card
Arthur Dent wrote:I understand changing the spelling (obviously for different character sets) and slight alterations to pronunciations to fit other languages, but I don't get the wholesale alterations:
Japan - Nippon
Germany - Deutschland
Hungary - Magyar
München = Munich. Doesn't make much sense.
I still don't understand Worcester ("wooster") either.