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I just had a revelation.

Drugs need to be legalized.

All of them.

If you want them, you can get them, and put the government in charge of them.

You can go to a clinic and get whatever drug you want free of charge, payed for by the tax payers.

The war on drugs is over. No more drug dealers as you can get the drugs for free. No more muggings, or burglaries, or shop lifting to support a drug habit. The size of the prison population would also be greatly diminished. Farmers who have trouble keeping their farms can now grow drugs for the government. Public transportation would have to be greatly improved as we don't want impaired drivers all over the roads. The snack food industry would benefit greatly from it, maybe we can put an extra tax on cheeto's to help pay for some of this.

this seems like an emotional post

Jocephus wrote:this seems like an emotional post

Not my intention.
Trying to open a real discussion on what can be done to fix the drug issues in the U.S.
If you want to do drugs, who am i to tell you you can't, I just want to make sure the people who don't want to take drugs are not put in harms way because of the ones who do. That has always been my biggest concern with drugs. As long as you are not hurting anyone else, you should be able to do as much as you want.

I go back and forth. Sometimes I feel the way you do, Wart. Then I think about how drugs like heroin and crack more or less make people zombies, and make people sick and desperate. How these drugs end the users' lives, and make it pretty likely that the users will resort to behaviors that impose negative externalities on the rest of society like theft, muggings, property crime, prostitution, and premature mortality and socialized healthcare costs.

I agree that criminalizing drug use has been a huge failure (unless you are the DEA or a private prison operator). I don't know if full legalization works either. I also don't know what effect, if any, full legalization would have on usage rates. My guess is not a ton of extra people will decide to take up heroin just because it becomes legal. An advantage of full legalization is that it eliminates cartels, and lets the government tax and regulate. Regulation may prevent deaths; tax may help pay for treatment and rehabilitation that is missing in our country now.


TL/DR: I don't know. It's a tough problem that smarter people than me can't solve.

heyzeus wrote:I go back and forth. Sometimes I feel the way you do, Wart. Then I think about how drugs like heroin and crack more or less make people zombies, and make people sick and desperate. How these drugs end the users' lives, and make it pretty likely that the users will resort to behaviors that impose negative externalities on the rest of society like theft, muggings, property crime, prostitution, and premature mortality and socialized healthcare costs.

I agree that criminalizing drug use has been a huge failure (unless you are the DEA or a private prison operator). I don't know if full legalization works either. I also don't know what effect, if any, full legalization would have on usage rates. My guess is not a ton of extra people will decide to take up heroin just because it becomes legal. An advantage of full legalization is that it eliminates cartels, and lets the government tax and regulate. Regulation may prevent deaths; tax may help pay for treatment and rehabilitation that is missing in our country now.


TL/DR: I don't know. It's a tough problem that smarter people than me can't solve.

Ten Years Ago Portugal Decriminalized All Drugs. What Happened Next?

Schlich wrote:

heyzeus wrote:I go back and forth. Sometimes I feel the way you do, Wart. Then I think about how drugs like heroin and crack more or less make people zombies, and make people sick and desperate. How these drugs end the users' lives, and make it pretty likely that the users will resort to behaviors that impose negative externalities on the rest of society like theft, muggings, property crime, prostitution, and premature mortality and socialized healthcare costs.

I agree that criminalizing drug use has been a huge failure (unless you are the DEA or a private prison operator). I don't know if full legalization works either. I also don't know what effect, if any, full legalization would have on usage rates. My guess is not a ton of extra people will decide to take up heroin just because it becomes legal. An advantage of full legalization is that it eliminates cartels, and lets the government tax and regulate. Regulation may prevent deaths; tax may help pay for treatment and rehabilitation that is missing in our country now.


TL/DR: I don't know. It's a tough problem that smarter people than me can't solve.

Ten Years Ago Portugal Decriminalized All Drugs. What Happened Next?

Interesting read.

It would be great if it worked here and they could keep non drug users safe.
I still wouldn't do any drugs, I hated the way I felt when I took 1 Vicodin after I had abdominal hernia surgery, the pain in my stomach was better than feeling out of it the way the drugs made me feel. I don't even like to get buzzed, just can't stand not being in control of my self.
But too each his own, ans long as you don't hurt anyone else, including unborn kids if you are pregnant.

We work with a lot of kids living in poverty and squalor, largely caused by drug abuse. For two Sunday nights in a row, I spent a few hours teaching an 8 year old kid how to use the stove and microwave because, as the mother said to our children's director, "y'all keep sending us food has to be cookiedand D (the kid) can't cook it so we can't eat it." At 8 years old, D is responsible for all the cooking and care for his brothers and sisters while the mother feeds her drug habit. And this isn't inner city Baltimore. This is small town America.

I'm not saying that as an argument for legalizing or not legalizing drugs. I am saying, in my experience after working with these families and these kids, that drugs are the single most destructive and evil thing currently on this planet.

No idea what we as a society and government can do about it, but it should be a much bigger issue than it is.

wart57 wrote:But too each his own, ans long as you don't hurt anyone else, including unborn kids if you are pregnant.

You can't take drugs (regularly) and not hurt anyone else. It's impossible.

Fat Strat wrote:

wart57 wrote:But too each his own, ans long as you don't hurt anyone else, including unborn kids if you are pregnant.

You can't take drugs (regularly) and not hurt anyone else. It's impossible.

complete bull. C'mon, Fat. You know better.

Schlich wrote:

Fat Strat wrote:

wart57 wrote:But too each his own, ans long as you don't hurt anyone else, including unborn kids if you are pregnant.

You can't take drugs (regularly) and not hurt anyone else. It's impossible.

complete bull. C'mon, Fat.

(Maybe I should specify that we're talking serious drugs here, not casual marijuana or alcohol or cigarettes -- nicotine is a drug.)

I've worked with drug dealers and addicts for years and every single one of them have hurt nearly everyone that has been in their life because of their drug use. Every one of them used that excuse -- I'm not hurting anyone. They didn't recognize that they were leaving a trail of carnage in their wake for years until they were sober. No one can escape the fact that they have families, friends, and personal responsibilities that are almost always damaged by regular drug use/abuse.

Maybe if you're single and unattached and unemployed, with few family connects, you could pull it off. But, you're likely still going to damage relationships with friends, neighbors, and people you have dealings with on a regular basis.